The Singular Universe and the Reality of Time

513ZBKnBUVLby Massimo Pigliucci

I have devoted a serious amount of time to reading the new book by Roberto Mangabeira Unger and Lee Smolin, The Singular Universe and the Reality of Time: A Proposal In Natural Philosophy [1]. Indeed, this review actually pertains to the first part of the book, written by Unger, the philosopher in the pair. Eventually I will come back to it with a second review, focusing on the part written by Smolin, the physicist. They make the same argument, but one goes at it from a broad, philosophical perspective, the other from a more empirical, scientific point of view.

It is an ambitious book, bound to be controversial both among philosophers and among scientists, but it is worth the effort, if nothing else in order to expose one’s mind to a fairly radical way of conceiving of metaphysics, physics, and mathematics — and this despite the fact that the first part, written by Unger, is somewhat slow going and repetitious, compared to Smolin’s contribution.

Before we get to what the authors set out to accomplish, it is worth discussing a more basic premise of the book: they see it as an exercise in what they call (a revived form of) “natural philosophy.” Of course, natural philosophy was the name by which science went before it became a field of inquiry independent of philosophy itself. Descartes, Galileo, Newton and even Darwin thought of themselves as natural philosophers (the word scientist, in fact, was invented by Darwin’s mentor, William Whewell, in 1833 [2]). But what’s the point of going back to the old term, aside from a bit of historical nostalgia and perhaps intellectual pretentiousness?

Actually, Unger & Smolin (henceforth, U&S) make a very good case for it, which begins with the observation that many of their colleagues have indeed engaged, often stealthily, or perhaps without recognizing it, in precisely this sort of activity. You may have noticed over the last several years the appearance of a number of books written by scientists and allegedly aimed at the general public, but upon closer inspection turn out to be a bit like those recent delightful Disney and Pixar movies: two-track productions, with the obvious and most accessible one aimed at young audiences, interwoven with more sophisticated jokes that only the cognoscenti (i.e., the adults, as far as the movies are concerned) understand and enjoy. These exercises in natural philosophy, according to U&S, have been written by scientists who want to talk not just to a lay audience, but also to their colleagues, outside of the strict and constraining formalism of peer review. Think of such books as long op-ed pieces that scientists (partly) aim at each other in order to influence the agendas of their respective fields.

This strikes me as exactly right, and makes new sense of a number of books I have read (and perhaps of some I have written?) over the years. For instance, I can count as exemplars of this new genre: Peter Woit’s Not Even Wrong (on string theory [3]); The Mating Mind, by Geoffrey Miller (on human sexual selection [4]); Capital in the Twenty-First Century, by Thomas Piketty (on economics [5]); Guns, Germs, and Steel, by Jared Diamond (on social evolution [6]); The Plausibility of Life, by Marc Kirschner and John Gerhart (on the evolution of evolutionary theory [7]), among many, many others. Indeed, arguably the approach goes all the way back to Darwin’s own Origin of Species, which had the distinction of being written for other naturalists, and yet selling out with the general public within the first day of distribution.

Unger describes the phenomenon in this way:

“Today, natural philosophy has not disappeared completely. It lives under disguise. Scientists write popular books, for the general educated public, professing to make their ideas about the science that they practice accessible to non-scientists. They use these books to speculate about the larger meaning of their discoveries for our understanding of the universe and of our place within it. They also have another audience, however: their colleagues in science, addressed under the disguise of popularization.” (p. 82)

Let us be clear that U&S (as well as myself) do not for a moment think that the scientists in question are doing anything unsavory, or engaging in a duplicitous advertising campaign. On the contrary, what the authors wish to do is to make the trend clear and take advantage of it to push their own agenda about physics and cosmology. I find the whole idea quite refreshing, regardless of whether one ends up agreeing or not with U&S’s specific proposals.

Unger identifies four signs of natural philosophy (pp. 75-77):

“Its first hallmark is to take nature as its topic: not science, but the world itself. It engages in controversy about the direction and practice of part of science only as part of a larger argument about nature. The proximate subject matter of the philosophy of science, as now understood and practiced, is science. The proximate subject matter of natural philosophy is, and has always been, nature. … A second characteristic of natural philosophy is to question the present agenda or the established methods in particular sciences. It does so from a distance rather than from within science. …A third trait of natural philosophy, as we exemplify it here, represents a break with much of the way in which natural philosophers used to view their own work when natural philosophy was an accepted genre. We deal with problems that are both basic and general. We do so, however, without depending on metaphysical ideas outside or above science. … A fourth characteristic of natural philosophy, as we here interpret and try to recover it, is that, as it intervenes in discussion of the agenda of natural science, it attenuates the clarity of the divide between a discourse within science and a discourse about science.”

I think Unger is being a bit optimistic about the possibility of not “depending on metaphysical ideas outside or above science,” but in other parts of his contribution to the book he seems to be arguing for a more modest (and eminently achievable) aim: to highlight a science’s (inevitable?) metaphysical commitments and to reduce them to the bare and justifiable minimum.

I do like the distinction being drawn here between natural philosophy and philosophy of science, based on the idea that there are three possible “discourses” to be carried forth: within science (properly done by scientists); outside of science (properly done by philosophers, of science); and simultaneously within and outside (to which both philosophically inclined scientists and scientifically inclined philosophers are welcome). I may have to change my office door label to “Natural Philosopher”…

All of the above taken as a preamble, what is it, exactly, that U&S are arguing for, and on what basis? Here I will draw heavily on the introduction to the book, common to both Unger’s and Smolin’s separate contributions, and I will intersperse my commentary as I see fit.

U&S present three fundamental ideas for the consideration of their readers:

“The first idea is the singular existence of the universe. … There is only one universe at a time, with the qualifications that we discuss. The most important thing about the natural world is that it is what it is and not something else. This idea contradicts the notion of a multiverse — of a plurality of simultaneously existing universes — which has sometimes been used to disguise certain explanatory failures of contemporary physics as explanatory successes.” (p.x)

All I have to say, pace my friend Sean Carroll and a number of other physicists and cosmologists: amen! U&S explain that there is no particular scientific reason to believe in the multiverse, that the idea is empirically untestable and therefore not scientific (yes, they are aware of claims to the contrary, and they deal with them), and that the whole concept is a metaphysical (in a bad sense of the word) cover up for what they see as the current failure of cosmological models.

“The second idea is the inclusive reality of time. Time is real. Indeed, it is the most real feature of the world, by which we mean that it is the aspect of nature of which we have most reason to say that it does not emerge from any other aspect. Time does not emerge from space, although space may emerge from time.” (p. x)

They explain that this conviction comes out of taking seriously what they consider (rightly, I think) cosmology’s most fundamental discovery of the 20th century: that the universe has an age. This discovery, they argue, is incompatible with the oft-repeated idea that time is relative and that there is no privileged absolute measure of it. Before you throw general relativity at me, consider that these two know what they are talking about. They are perfectly aware of Einstein’s theory, and they deal with it accordingly, philosophically in the first part of the book, scientifically in the second one. They do not reject GR, they simply reject what they think are unwarranted metaphysical extrapolations of it that physicists have taken for granted but that can be challenged in light of the empirical data coming out of cosmology.

“The third idea is the selective realism of mathematics. (We use realism here in the sense of relation to the one real natural world, in opposition to what is often described as mathematical Platonism: a belief in the real existence, apart from nature, of mathematical entities.) Now dominant conceptions of what the most basic natural science is and can become have been formed in the context of beliefs about mathematics and of its relation to both science and nature. The laws of nature, the discerning of which has been the supreme object of science, are supposed to be written in the language of mathematics.” (p. xii)

But they are not, because there are no “laws” and because mathematics is a human (very useful) invention, not a mysterious sixth sense capable of probing a deeper reality beyond the empirical. This needs some unpacking, of course. Let me start with mathematics, then move to the issue of natural laws.

I was myself, until recently, intrigued by mathematical Platonism [8]. It is a compelling idea, which makes sense of the “unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics” as Eugene Wigner famously put it [9]. It is a position shared by a good number of mathematicians and philosophers of mathematics. It is based on the strong gut feeling that mathematicians have that they don’t invent mathematical formalisms, they “discover” them, in a way analogous to what empirical scientists do with features of the outside world. It is also supported by an argument analogous to the defense of realism about scientific theories and advanced by Hilary Putnam: it would be nothing short of miraculous, it is suggested, if mathematics were the arbitrary creation of the human mind, and yet time and again it turns out to be spectacularly helpful to scientists [10].

But there are, of course, equally (more?) powerful counterarguments, which are in part discussed by Unger in the first part of the book. To begin with, the whole thing smells a bit too uncomfortably of mysticism: where, exactly, is this realm of mathematical objects? What is its ontological status? Moreover, and relatedly, how is it that human beings have somehow developed the uncanny ability to access such realm? We know how we can access, however imperfectly and indirectly, the physical world: we evolved a battery of sensorial capabilities to navigate that world in order to survive and reproduce, and science has been a continuous quest for expanding the power of our senses by way of more and more sophisticated instrumentation, to gain access to more and more (and increasingly less relevant to our biological fitness!) aspects of the world.

Indeed, it is precisely this analogy with science that powerfully hints to an alternative, naturalistic interpretation of the (un)reasonable effectiveness of mathematics. Math too started out as a way to do useful things in the world, mostly to count (arithmetics) and to measure up the world and divide it into manageable chunks (geometry). Mathematicians then developed their own (conceptual, as opposed to empirical) tools to understand more and more sophisticated and less immediate aspects of the world, in the process eventually abstracting entirely from such a world in pursuit of internally generated questions (what we today call “pure” mathematics).

U&S do not by any means deny the power and effectiveness of mathematics. But they also remind us that precisely what makes it so useful and general — its abstraction from the particularities of the world, and specifically its inability to deal with temporal asymmetries (mathematical equations in fundamental physics are time-symmetric, and asymmetries have to be imported as externally imposed background conditions) — also makes it subordinate to empirical science when it comes to understanding the one real world.

Perhaps the best example of this tension is provided by the backward extension of the field equations of general relativity, which is the basis for the claim — rejected by Unger and Smolin — that the universe began with a “singularity” characterized by infinite mass and energy. They flip things around, asserting that the logical impossibility, as well as the complete dearth of empirical evidence, of any infinite quantities in nature must take precedence instead. If GR predicts physical infinities too bad for GR: it simply means that that particular theory, like all scientific theories, has a specific domain of application (admittedly, fairly large: most of the known universe for most of its history), beyond which it breaks down (more on this below). Some physicists, according to U&S, commit instead the same mistake as the (fictional) authors of the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, warning their readers that in case of conflict between the Guide and Reality, it is Reality that is at fault…

Interestingly, in other domains of physics it is the physicists themselves who gladly follow U&S’s advice. Take, for instance, the emergent phenomenon of phase transitions [11]. It turns out that the curves describing transitions between states of matter are the same regardless of the specifics of the substance, indicating a universal phenomenon underlying these processes. Moreover, by far the best (though, crucially, not the only) mathematical treatment of phase transitions invokes, you guessed it, singularities! That is, the mathematical physicist works things out as if the number of molecules involved in phase transitions was infinite, which allows him to deploy some very elegant and very treatable mathematical formalisms to describe the physics. But of course everyone knows that this is just an idealization: number of molecules is never an infinite quantity, only a very very large one. Why then, make a metaphysical 180 in the specific case of the Big Bang? I think Einstein himself would have appreciated a bit more deference to the empirical here.

And now to the issue of laws of nature. The whole idea has a controversial history [12], and is of surprisingly recent vintage. Among early natural philosophers, Descartes, and then Newton, were enthusiastic supporters of the notion, which of course they directly ascribed to the existence of a creator God: after all, if there are Laws, we need a Law-giver of some sort. Hobbes and Galileo, on the contrary, were distinctly unexcited by it, preferring instead to talk about empirical approximations and generalizations. While the Cartesian-Newtonian camp holds sway in modern physics, a number of philosophers before U&S have pointed out that this is likely a mistake, introducing an enigma (where do the laws come from?) in order to explain a mystery (some observed regularities in the way the universe works).

Two such philosophers are Nancy Cartwright and Ian Hacking. They independently published two seminal books on the topic back in 1983: How the Laws of Physics Lie (how’s that for a controversial title? [13]) and Representing and Intervening [14], respectively.

According to Cartwright in particular, laws of nature are not true generalized descriptions of the behavior of particles, say, but rather statements about how particles would behave according to idealized models. Her crucial point being that theories are to be re-interpreted as (empirical), idealized models of reality, not as more or less isomorphic (true) maps of the world.

Cartwright distinguishes between fundamental and phenomenological laws: fundamental laws are those postulated by realists, and they (supposedly) describe the true deep structure of the universe; phenomenological laws, conversely, can be used to make predictions, they work well enough, but they are strictly speaking, false.

Newtonian mechanics is then interpreted as a phenomenological law: it is an idealization that works well for certain practical purposes. Crucially, for Cartwright, all laws are like that (so she is an anti-realist about laws), which means that in physics, instead of looking for a fundamental “theory of everything” we should be working instead on putting together a coherent patchwork of local (phenomenological) theories and laws, each characterized by a limited domain of application.

Here is how she puts it: “neither quantum nor classical theories are sufficient on their own for providing accurate descriptions of the phenomena in their domain. Some situations require quantum descriptions, some classical and some a mix of both.” To say something along the lines of “yes, but in principle we could use quantum mechanics for everything” is, according to Cartwright, to go beyond the empirical and wade into shaky metaphysical ground. While Unger and Smolin don’t quite go that far, the spirit of their criticism is similar. Interestingly, however, they derive it from an analysis of physical laws that begins with another staple of philosophical discourse: causality [15].

The basic idea put forth by U&S is simple, profound, and eminently reasonable: we usually explain causal processes and interactions by invoking laws. But in fact, they argue, it is more plausible to think that it is the (appearance of) laws that emerge from causal interactions. That is, causal processes are primary, and when they happen with predictable regularity we call the resulting pattern a law. This, in turn, stems from their treatment of time as not emergent: if there is anything that defines causality it is temporal asymmetry, and in fact time itself can be defined in terms of causality:

“If time were not real, there could be no causal relations for the reason that there would be no before (the cause) and after (the effect). … Nothing would distinguish causal connections, which are time-bound, from logical or mathematical relations of implication, which stand outside time.” (p. 7) And also: “Within this view, time is intimately and internally connected with change. Change is causal. Time is change. In the spirit of these propositions, we should take inspiration, not discouragement, from Mach’s remark: ‘It is utterly beyond our power to measure the change of things by time. Quite the contrary, time is an abstraction at which we arrive by the changes of things.’” (p. 222)

But, wait, I’m sure you are about to say, isn’t it the case that we have lots of empirical evidence that time changes depending on local conditions, such as the speed at which we move, or gravitational effects? Unger (and Smolin, in the second half of the book) have obviously considered this: “No necessary, one-to-one relation exists between the Einsteinian-Riemannian ontology and the hard empirical content of general relativity. We can keep the empirical residue while dispensing with the ontology.” (p. 232) The practical solution here is to conceive of absolute time not in terms of standard units, such as seconds, oscillations of reference atoms, and the like. Time is, if I understand U&S correctly, simply the succession of causal connections between events. This succession can locally take place at a different pace, but this does not invalidate the universally true fact that certain things (like, most obviously, the Big Bang) happened before (meaning that they were causally antecedent to) others.

There are two crucial consequences of this way of looking at things: to begin with, that the laws of nature themselves can change over “time.” Indeed, they already have. U&S think that the universe has gone through at the least two phases, and possibly many more before those. One phase was the Big Bang and what happened immediately before and after. During this sequence of causal events (i.e., “time”) things were happening that did not abide to anything like the predictable regularity we see operating today, because the causal processes themselves were changing. The second phase is the one of the cooled down universe, which has gone on for billions of years now, and which can (to a good approximation, as Cartwright would say) be described as law-abiding, because the nature of the causal interactions that characterize it is either not changing or not changing appreciably. But this state of affairs may not last forever, and the universe may go through yet another period of upheaval, and so on and so forth, indefinitely.

The second crucial consequence is that physicists should take cosmology seriously as a fundamentally historical science, to be modeled after some of the “special” sciences like geology and biology, not in the increasingly singular way in which fundamental physics proceeds. Indeed, the idea that the very regularities governing the universe change with the causal conditions appears odd only in fundamental physics, because it has been so influenced by abstract (and necessarily time invariant!) mathematics. All other sciences have long recognized the emergence of new patterns of behavior (i.e., new regularities) triggered by changed causal conditions. For instance, major transitions in biological evolution (e.g., from unicellular to multicellular life) have made possible entirely new modes of evolutionary change (a concept known as “evolvability” [16]) that were simply not instantiated before. The appearance of sentient beings capable of reasoning has triggered novel types of causal interactions described by the social sciences (psychology, sociology, history, economics), again following patterns that were simply not accessible to the universe before a certain point. This yields an appealing picture of open possibilities, where the future is not fixed by the past, but depends on how causality will change and on what novel forms it will take.

At the cost of further prolonging this already sizable half review, as it were, let me point out also that Unger clearly frames the project of the book within the context of two broad philosophical traditions:

“the relational approach to nature and the priority of becoming over being. … The relational idea is that we should understand time and space as orderings of events or phenomena rather than as entities in themselves. … In the history of physics and of natural philosophy the two chief statements of the relational view have been those formulated by Gottfried Leibniz in the late seventeenth century and by Ernst Mach in the late nineteenth century. … A second philosophical inspiration of this book is less easy to associate with a single doctrine, a ready-made description, or a few names. It is the tradition of thought that affirms the primacy of becoming over being, of process over structure, and therefore as well of time over space. It insists on the impermanence of everything that exists.” (pp. xiii-xv) Well, in terms of names at the least, I may suggest Heraclitus and Fu Hsi (the author of the I Ching, the aptly named “book of changes”).

These are, of course, far from uncontroversial ideas, but they are eminently defensible philosophical frameworks: time and space are not entities, but ways to order events, and the universe is not organized according to timeless (ah!) laws, but any regularity that characterizes it emerges from the unfolding of things.

This is where things stand at the moment. Now give me a couple more months to get through Smolin’s part of the book…

_____

Massimo Pigliucci is a biologist and philosopher at the City University of New York. His main interests are in the philosophy of science and pseudoscience. He is the editor-in-chief of Scientia Salon, and his latest book (co-edited with Maarten Boudry) is Philosophy of Pseudoscience: Reconsidering the Demarcation Problem (Chicago Press).

[1] The Singular Universe and the Reality of Time: A Proposal in Natural Philosophy, by R.M. Unger and L. Smolin, Cambridge University Press, 2014.

[2] Scientist, Wiki entry.

[3] Not Even Wrong: The Failure of String Theory and the Search for Unity in Physical Law, by P. Woit, Basic Books, 2006.

[4] The Mating Mind: How Sexual Choice Shaped the Evolution of Human Nature, by G. Miller, Doubleday, 2000.

[5] Capital in the Twenty-First Century, by T. Piketty, Belknap Press, 2014.

[6] Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies, by J. Diamond, W. W. Norton & Company, 1999.

[7] The Plausibility of Life: Resolving Darwin’s Dilemma, by M.W. Kirschner and J.C. Gerhart, Yale University Press, 2005.

[8] On mathematical Platonism, by M. Pigliucci, Rationally Speaking, 14 September 2012. But then see: Mathematical Universe? I ain’t convinced, by M. Pigliucci, 11 December 2013.

[9] The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences, by E. Wigner, Communications in Pure and Applied Mathematics, vol. 13, No. I (February 1960). Then again, see for instance this rebuttal by Steven French: The Reasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics: Partial Structures and the Application of Group Theory to Physics, Synthese 125:103-120, 2000.

[10] Platonism in the Philosophy of Mathematics, by Ø. Linnebo, Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.

[11] Essays on emergence, by M. Pigliucci, part I, part III and part IV, Rationally Speaking, 11 October 2012, 22 October 2012, and 25 October 2012.

[12] Are there natural laws?, by M. Pigliucci, Rationally Speaking, 3 October 2013.

[13] How the Laws of Physics Lie, by N. Cartwright, Oxford University Press, 1983.

[14] Representing and Intervening: Introductory Topics in the Philosophy of Natural Science, by I. Hacking, Cambridge University Press, 1983.

[15] Causal Processes, by P. Dowe, Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.

[16] Is evolvability evolvable?, by M. Pigliucci, Nature Reviews Genetics 9:75-82 (2008).

69 thoughts on “The Singular Universe and the Reality of Time

  1. I’m intrigued as this is very much my area of interest.

    Why do U&S think that the entropic arrow of time is insufficient to explain the directionality of time? It is certainly counter-intuitive but I can’t see how it obviously fails to ground the observer’s momentary perception of remembering the immediate past. If the observer remembers the immediate past at every point then that observer will behave as if time were flowing for them. Hence all phenomenological content is saved. Now that story may well fail somewhere but again – it’s not obvious to me that it does.

    Why does Cartwright think we cannot get classical mechanics from quantum mechanics? That’s in fact been a very fruitful programme, see for example Jonathan Halliwell’s work at Imperial College London or others’.

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  2. Seems to be a book with ambition.

    > “Perhaps the best example of this tension is provided by the backward extension of the field equations of general relativity, which is the basis for the claim that the universe began with a “singularity” characterized by infinite mass and energy. (…) Some physicists, according to U&S, commit instead the same mistake as the (fictional) authors of the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, warning their readers that in case of conflict between the Guide and Reality, it is Reality that is at fault…”

    I thought physicists in general hold the opinion that in the neighbourhood of this singularity general relativity breaks down. At least, that’s what everybody I know says. I’ve never met a physicist who to took this backward extrension “to infinite mass and energy” seriously. But who am I, of course.

    > … the universe is not organized according to timeless (ah!) laws, but any regularity that characterizes it emerges from the unfolding of things.

    Perhaps I should read the book, but afaik the “emergence from the unfolding of things” etc. has been tried before. The last serious attempt came from Prigogine, I think. He wrote a lot about timelessness and unfolding of things (although perhaps not in those precise words) but it didn’t work out well. His approach has left few traces in physics. So while the idea may be attractive, I would like to see the formulas first.

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  3. Good article.

    I wanted to jump right in with respect to the mathematical portion of the piece, as that’s an area I find most interesting.

    I honestly believe (and have discussed previously during many exchanges at SciSal/RationallySpeaking) that the arguments you raise against mathematical Platonism aren’t powerful at all, and I want to dissect each one in turn and throw in a couple observations that should put serious reservations in the minds of anyone grasping for nominalism.

    1) “To begin with, the whole thing smells a bit too uncomfortably of mysticism: where, exactly, is this realm of mathematical objects? What is its ontological status? ”

    This is a common refrain I hear from the anti-Platonism camp, and it holds little water. For one, amongst the various incarnations of mathematical realism, the Platonic (out there in some ideal world) concept is one way of looking at the relationship of mathematics to the world. Another one, which is prominently defended in recent writings by the philosopher James Baldwin (http://aeon.co/magazine/science/what-is-left-for-mathematics-to-be-about/), is based along the lines of Aristotelian Realism (this also jives with Penelope Maddy’s thoughts on the subject). In this framework, the symmetries and structures that mathematics describes are physically instantiated in the world. They’re not in some abstract realm, but embedded here in our reality. This immediately answers the question of where the realm is, but it also gives us the ability to answer Massimo’s second concern:

    2) “Moreover, and relatedly, how is it that human beings have somehow developed the uncanny ability to access such realm?”

    Well, if the realm is instantiated right here in front of us, then there isn’t really a mystery to be solved here. I often wonder whether mathematical nominalists understand this point, because it’s always brought up as the epistemic nail in the coffin for Platonism. It’s no such thing. If the world is inherently mathematical then it stands to reason that evolution might eventually lead to a species that could use that understanding to its advantage. I mean, rudimentary mathematics isn’t even solely a human activity. We know of many other species that can count objects in their surrounding environment.

    3) Ontology and Mathematical vs “Physical” Objects

    So we’ve talked a little bit about a version of Platonism of the Aristotelian flavor, and I think it does very well for itself. Obviously some might be concerned about large cardinals and how the infinite hierarchy might fit into the framework of the universe itself, and we can leave that discussion to another day (or not if some out there are interested).

    That being said, I want to step back for a second and discuss something I’ve mentioned before. That word “physical” needs a closer look, and when we get through this its distinction with respect to “abstract” will be a lot harder to distinguish. Physical objects are made of atoms. Those atoms, however, are something like 99.9999% empty space. The subatomic particles comprising the other 0.0001% or so don’t do much to make things more “physical.”

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  4. Does this description of time not contain two definitions? For how else could time go at different paces at different times, without an overarching meta-time? In the evolution example this was possible, since there is a “background time” of the universe to compare the evolutionary time to, but the time pace of the universe does not have such a comparison… then it would simply go at the same pace always by definition… This is from the top of my head, any thoughts?

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  5. I have read two books about time:
    Time’s Arrow and Archimedes’ Point, Huw Price
    http://prce.hu/w/TAAP.html
    Timeless Reality, Victor J. Stenger
    http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/Timeless.html
    If there is something written about time that gives more insight than these two, I’m interested in seeing what that is.

    On (mathematical) platonism, naturally I think the belief that there are mathematical entities that are immaterial is a form of spiritualism or quasi-theism! 🙂

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  6. A fascinating and friendly review but somehow the book did not come out of it too well. .

    Is it possible to reconcile the view that time is real with the idea that time is no more than a succession of causal elements? Is it not the direction of time that is being discussed here, rather than the thing itself?

    Unger writes, “The relational idea is that we should understand time and space as orderings of events or phenomena rather than as entities in themselves. … In the history of physics and of natural philosophy the two chief statements of the relational view have been those formulated by Gottfried Leibniz in the late seventeenth century and by Ernst Mach in the late nineteenth century.”

    In a more general history, if I’m getting the point here, we would have to add the entire literature of mysticism. The chief statement of the relational view, I would rather say, or at least the most thorough and complete, was formulated by Nagarjuna in his ‘Fundamental Wisdom’.

    Unger’s view that time is prior to space (and thus to space-time phenomena) may be significant in that time as a succession of events would be logically required for intentional consciousness while logically space can be emergent as its creation. At any rate, it would be the orthodox view for Buddhists and their like. .

    “A second philosophical inspiration of this book is less easy to associate with a single doctrine, … It is the tradition of thought that affirms the primacy of becoming over being, of process over structure, and therefore as well of time over space. It insists on the impermanence of everything that exists.” Well, in terms of names at the least, I may suggest Heraclitus and Fu Hsi (the author of the I Ching, the aptly named “book of changes”).”

    This comment seems a bit underwhelming in the circumstances. We could add the names of Nagarjuna, Weyl, Schrodinger, Lao Tsu, Meister Eckhart, Bradley, the Buddha, the writers of the Upanishads, Al Halaj and many more. The impermanence of everything that appears to exist is what Nagarjuna logically proves. It may be expressed as ‘nothing really exists’. In metaphysics it would be a neutral metaphysical position, elsewhere ‘nondualism’. I gather that the authors do not award it much discussion.

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  7. To go beyond ToT on one issue related to time, I’d have to say I disagree with this:

    “No necessary, one-to-one relation exists between the Einsteinian-Riemannian ontology and the hard empirical content of general relativity. We can keep the empirical residue while dispensing with the ontology.” (p. 232) The practical solution here is to conceive of absolute time not in terms of standard units, such as seconds, oscillations of reference atoms, and the like. Time is, if I understand U&S correctly, simply the succession of causal connections between events.

    First, changing the units of measurement is a different matter than getting rid of units of measurement entirely, and the idea of “measurement” behind that.

    Since we of course talk about “spacetime,” let’s analogize with the “space” half of things. It would be one thing to say, “let’s get rid of meters, etc.” and use entirely new units of measurement. It would be another to say that “space is simply the interplay of physical locations” or something like that.

    I’m not saying U&S are wrong, but I am saying that if your interpretation is correct, and I understand it correctly, it’s at least head-scratching and unsatisfying. Per general relativity, why should we treat our approach to time as a dimension differently than our approach to the three spatial dimensions?

    Even more so, since, per Wheeler’s famous riff on GR, both time and space tell one another what to do.

    Then we get into the laws of nature changing over time, etc. I’m not quite ready to call that “meta-time,” though, at a minimum, I do wonder if we need a different word, either for that, or else for the fourth dimension of spacetime that we now call “time.”

    All of this reminds me of another book, cowritten by a philosopher and a physicist, about somewhat similar issues, but in QM, not GR and cosmology.

    I’ve already mentioned it to Massimo, either as the possibility for another review, or perhaps better yet, an essay by one or both authors.

    I definitely recommend ‘The Quantum Moment.” It’s certainly shorter than this book, but on both the philosophy and physics side, it’s informative and “accessible.”

    https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/1234672952

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  8. Continued from above post…

    Currently they have no known substructure down to ~ 10^-18 to 10^-20 meters. Literally, they are considered in modern particle physics as zero-dimensional mathematical point particles. Trying to escape by suggesting more fundamental strings or “knots of spacetime” just moves the question of “physicality” back a little further. I mean what exactly is physical about a “vibrating strand of energy”? Quite literally, modern science shows us that physical matter is something far stranger than we might have expected. So what picture starts to emerge in fundamental physics? A mathematical one, where equations and symmetries and other mathematical structures govern things. This is a very strange thing for some people to adopt, but its not a choice they can make. You can’t choose to be a nominalist or just say “well its all in our heads, its not out there in the real world” when Lie Groups and algebraic geometry are at the forefront of our understanding of the world and how things interact within it.

    This picture is fascinating, and it’s also forced upon us by our current scientific understanding. It turns out that everyone who was so sure everything in front of them was “physical” and “solid” and “non-abstract” has a completely incorrect understanding of the world that surrounds them.

    Let me reiterate that this is not a defense of supernaturalism/mysticism. That garbage has no place here. Even still, I strongly believe that ideological motivations of avoiding any sort of ontology that might make a hard core materialist uneasy (coupled with the religious connotations that the word “Platonism” engenders) make this view difficult to subscribe to for some. Again though, I must reiterate that this is no choice. Modern experimental physics points us in this direction, and if it all ends of boiling down to what seems to be mathematical point particles and the mathematical symmetries/structures/interactions between them, then obviously this would naturally lend itself to some form of mathematical realism.

    If anyone would like to entertain that the modern empirical conception of things I have mentioned is flawed, or that nominalism to could still be viable, I’m all ears. I just can’t see that as being possible. Not only do I think that the only way a world could exist is to be mathematical, as mathematics itself is about different structures and their internal relationships (clearly physical reality seems to have an underlying structure to it), but I think it’s an incredible picture of our reality. The fact that we can come to understand the inherent structure of it all might be one of the greatest accomplishments we humans ever make.

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  9. Hi Massimo (first in?),

    Very informative essay, thank you. Reviews of current debates and literature are always very much appreciated.

    I had a few thoughts. First, regarding this statement “Time is, if I understand U&S correctly, simply the succession of causal connections between events.” There is a rejoinder to this made by Sydney Shoemaker (the paper is “Time Without Change” 1969 though I am acquainted with the argument through discussion elsewhere). It goes something like this: imagine a world in which nothing ever changes. It could be a very full, richly describable world. It could contain scenic vistas of mountains, seas and so forth. However, every atom is locked into place, not vibrating. No orbital spin ever changes, no wave function ever collapses. It seems extremely plausible to think that such a world could exist for thousands of years. Time would pass while nothing changed. But then time does not seem to be parasitic upon change or causal successions. Also would a universe in which causal events occurred more rapidly be sad to pass faster through time? A universe in which events succeed very gradually more slowly? Can we even make sense of “rapidly” and “slowly” without smuggling in time as a separate and free standing concept? I am incredulous.

    On another topic I have never been able to square your anti-realism about mathematics with your realism about science. It strikes me like being realist about furniture and anti-realist about lumber. Surely if mathematics is a human construction chosen and fashioned to some degree arbitrarily and a priori, then science consisting as it does in the application of mathematical models to the natural world must itself be a human construction fashioned to some degree arbitrarily and a priori. (Yes I am aware there is geology and anthropology, perfectly good science without much math. Good for them. However the paradigm sciences like physics biology and chemistry as well as even social sciences like economics rely heavily on mathematical models. How is what is good for the goose not good for the gander?) Furthermore if mathematics is a human construction with degrees of arbitrariness settled by human construction, not nature, isn’t it extremely plausible to think that every human language is this same way? But then our descriptions describe the world indeed but only the world as it appears to those who describe the world in the way we do, which could always be one among others. As Putnam would put it, our knowledge responds to the object but the object responds to the way we conceptualize it. As Kant would put it we see the world but only as it appears to us. Our knowledge is empirically real but transcendentally ideal (indexed to our kind of conception). This is submitting to what Sellars would call “the nominalistic proclivities of the empiricist tradition”. I think this gives the (sane) anti-realists all they want.

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  10. So, after some more thought: when physicists talk about time, they do it in three distinct ways: i) time as a parameter which traces a physical system through phase-space (space and momentum), ii) time as a dimension similar to the other three directions of space, and iii) time as an emergent statistical property with a direction (second law of thermodynamics), where time goes in the direction of largest entropy (be it in any direction in parameter time). Reductionists may want to reduce iii) into i), which would be the “meta-time” of my previous comment. In all physical theories i) is present and all theories are symmetrical under reversal of parameter-time (or math is, if I understand the sentiment of the article correctly). I am not entirely sure just yet which of these time-definitions U&S address, or if they are instead adding yet another definition: iv) relational causal time separating causes from effects. This seems to have elements of both iii) and i) in it, but General Relativity is mostly concerned with ii)…

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  11. Truth is: Philosophy is Nature’s truth. Science is the measure and division of nature. Time is a yardstick, another measure of human construct. Wisdom is the understanding of Nature’s immeasurable and indivisible self, Oneself. Mathematics is another language based on an equation. The equation is =. Equal is in another language, just One. Justice is equality or Oneness. Singularity is equal or One. Natural law is freedom. (Nature has no laws except for those we create.) Freedom is equality.Light is not C, light is freedom at last. =

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  12. Hi Massimo,

    Actually, Unger & Smolin (henceforth, U&S) make a very good case for [the term “natural philosophy”]

    I’m glad to see people promoting the scientismistic idea that “science” and “philosophy” are not separate domains. Certainly most scientists tend naturally to see “philosophy of science” as within their purview.

    The proximate subject matter of natural philosophy is, and has always been, nature.

    Ditto science.

    U&S explain that there is no particular scientific reason to believe in the multiverse …

    That word should be “assert”, not “explain”!

    Perhaps the best example of this tension is … the claim … that the universe began with a “singularity” …

    The claim of “tension” is overdone, since few physicists argue for an actual singularity. See, for example, Matt Strassler on this point. What you report U&S as saying is already accepted commonplace.

    While the Cartesian-Newtonian camp holds sway in modern physics, a number of philosophers before U&S have pointed out that this is likely a mistake, …

    Well no, the Cartesian-Newtonian camp, as you call it, does not hold sway in physics. De facto, physicists see “laws of nature” as descriptions of how nature works, part of a Quinean-style web of ideas that is iteratively adjusted to match empirical reality.

    Thus “laws” are good-enough models of reality. The idea that “laws” are “agents” that go around “telling” matter what to do is silly.

    instead of looking for a fundamental “theory of everything” we should be working instead on putting together a coherent patchwork of local (phenomenological) theories and laws, each characterized by a limited domain of application.

    Except that, if nature is a unified seamless whole (which it seems to be) then the best explanations/descriptions will also be seamless and unified. Thus, de facto, we start from “a coherent patchwork of local theories” and then see if we can move towards a seamless and unified theory.

    … is, according to Cartwright, to go beyond the empirical and wade into shaky metaphysical ground …

    Theoretical physics is always *trying* to go beyond the empirical. Any invention of new hypotheses and ideas to test is always a step beyond the empirical, followed by the step of testing them against the empirical. Physics is a search for *predictive* power, which is necessarily a step beyond *known* empirical data.

    The basic idea put forth by U&S is simple, profound, and eminently reasonable: we usually explain causal processes and interactions by invoking laws.

    Which translates as: “we explain causal processes and interactions by describing how stuff behaves”.

    But in fact, they argue, it is more plausible to think that it is the (appearance of) laws that emerge from causal interactions.

    Which translates as: “the behaviour of the stuff emerges from causal interactions”.

    Thus, this distinction is a non-distinction. It would only be a sensible distinction if anyone thought that “laws” were agents going around telling stuff what to do. But no-one thinks that.

    That is, causal processes are primary, and when they happen with predictable regularity we call the resulting pattern a law.

    Yes, exactly, we observe predictable regularity and codify that in a “law”. Again, this is accepted commonplace.

    The second crucial consequence is that physicists should take cosmology seriously as a fundamentally historical science, …

    Which they already do, so this is yet another commonplace. As just one example, take the “multiverse” idea that different regions of the universe might have different “fundamental constants” owing to historical contingency. The whole inflationary model of the Big Bang explains our observed universe in terms of symmetry-breaking “accidents”.

    All other sciences have long recognized the emergence of new patterns of behavior …

    And so has cosmology. Nucleosynthesis and galaxy formation are just two examples of “new patterns of behaviour” made possible by the fact that the universe cooled.

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  13. Why the universe is mathematical should be no surprise:

    Suppose the universe is a computer U (which could include quantum and/or hypercomputational capabilities). A scientist attempts to reverse engineer some part P of the universe. What is produced by the scientist is a separate computer C that models the observations of P. But C is not P. P could consist of a different (unknown) architecture/programming language than what C is made of. But since C and U (of which P is a part) are both computers, that the universe is “mathematical” comes as no surprise.

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  14. Hi Massimo,

    Nice article from a point of view very different from my own! Having read the book myself, first I want to point out some areas where I think you may have misinterpreted them a little.

    But first, on points of agreement, I agree with you and with U&S that the revival of natural philosophy as a distinct enterprise is a worthy goal. I also agree with you that Unger is repetitious and long-winded. I found that half of the book to be particularly frustrating and feel that your article covers almost as much ground as Unger did in his 300+ pages.

    Even though I disagree with U&S, I think you misinterpret and weaken their argument on a couple of points:

    1) That the reality of time is because the universe has an age.

    This is not quite what they are saying. They are saying that time is inclusively real (by which they mean absolutely everything changes, nothing is outside of time and the universe’s future is not determined because it doesn’t exist yet) not because the universe has an age but because the universe has a history during which it has undergone profound changes — as opposed to the pre-Big Bang notion of a steady state universe which to U&S is more at home with the view that some things (e.g. laws of nature) are changeless and exist outside of time.

    The argument you present, that the age of the universe would be meaningless if time is truly relative (as GR is usually taken to imply) doesn’t necessarily hold water. I always took the age of the universe at 13.8 billion years to be its age from the perspective of our particular reference frame, although perhaps I’m wrong about that.

    2) How they overcome the subjectivity of time in GR

    > Time is, if I understand U&S correctly, simply the succession of causal connections between events.

    Unfortunately, I don’t think you do understand U&S correctly. U&S argue that their thesis demands a universal ordering of events according to a global time, something that is assumed not to exist in relativity. You think they do that by ordering events with respect to what causes what, but this doesn’t work because different events can be completely causally disconnected if they are outside each others light cones. This is how it can be the case that from certain reference frames A precedes B while from others B precedes A, (but, if I understand correctly, A and B must be causally disconnected for this to be the case).

    Rather, the solution proposed by U&S is to posit a class of privileged reference frames that will all agree on the ordering of events. If I understand them correctly, these reference frames are outside of any gravitational influence, perhaps at rest with respect to the mean velocity of the bodies in the observable universe. These reference frames are also those which will measure the time since the Big Bang as being greatest (I think). They don’t really spell this stuff out but that’s what I infer, because I don’t know what else a privileged reference frame could be.

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  15. Hi Massimo,

    Next, to take up some arguments:

    > U&S explain that there is no particular scientific reason to believe in the multiverse, that the idea is empirically untestable and therefore not scientific

    There is also no particular scientific reason to believe in a singular universe. The only appropriate scientific attitude is to be mostly agnostic, perhaps lending somewhat greater credence to whichever view is suggested by the best scientific theories we have. Carroll, Tegmark and others have argued that this view is one or other kind of multiverse. Because this is controversial, I’m happy to say that belief either way is unscientific and ought instead to be viewed as a philosophical position.

    > mysticism

    I echo pete1187’s objections to the characterisation of Platonism as mystical.

    > where, exactly, is this realm of mathematical objects?

    There is no realm, if by realm you mean place (as you must if you ask where it is!). These are not physical objects, so they don’t need a place to exist in. Whether they exist or not is purely a question of how flexible you are with the concept of existence. For example, if you say “There is no solution to this problem”, you can be taken to be asserting that no solution exists. This is not a mystical statement, demanding that solutions must be found in a mysterious realm of solutions.

    > What is its ontological status

    For me, the whole idea of existence as an unambiguous problem-free concept where everything unequivocally either exists or doesn’t is a mistake. There are different ways to think about existence, and Platonism is just another way of doing that. There is no fact of the matter, only whether or not you find this mental tool to be palatable or useful.

    > how is it that human beings have somehow developed the uncanny ability to access such realm?

    We perceive it just as U&S describe, by abstracting structure away from the particular instances we find. We don’t perceive it directly because in itself it is causally inert.

    > that the universe began with a “singularity” characterized by infinite mass and energy.

    I agree with Coel that U&S make way too much of the singularity predicted by GR. GR is not a final fundamental theory. It cannot be, because it is incompatible with QM. The singularities predicted by GR may or may not exist. Again, agnosticism is the only scientific position (this is also the case with respect to whether our spacetime is merely very very large or actually infinite in extent).

    My own reasons for preferring Platonism have nothing to do with the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics. Instead, it is because its negation leads to various absurdities.

    For instance, on U&S’s account, it must be that only one of Newton or Liebniz genuinely created the calculus, while the other merely discovered what already existed. Nevertheless, to both men, what they did was subjectively the same. To say the character of their achievements is really so different strikes me as silly.

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  16. Next, I’ll outline a small fraction of my problems with the book (unfortunately comment length limits here do not allow me to do their arguments justice).

    The basic foundation of their view is a case of wishful thinking. They want it to be possible to explain conclusively and scientifically why the laws of nature are the way they are (explanations appealing to the anthropic principle and the multiverse are ruled out because they are unfalsifiable, as of course is Intelligent Design). Their proposal is that, rather than being the way they are as a matter of brute fact, the laws of nature have developed over time, perhaps even evolving in a process analogous to natural selection.

    (To be clear, where U&S propose such proto-hypotheses, I think that’s great and these ideas should be investigated.)

    They then make the entirely unwarranted leap that because we *want* to be able to explain the origin of the laws of nature scientifically, it *must* be the case that the laws of nature developed over time.

    I wouldn’t mind so much if they were merely advocating the pragmatic view (akin to methodological naturalism) that we should always assume that there are scientific answers to our questions so that we do not despair of finding them. Unfortunately, they take it further, describing as fallacious other views which may be philosophically justified.

    In Unger’s case, a large portion of the book consists of him attacking various positions by showing how they are incompatible with his wishful assumptions (largely a waste of time if you don’t buy the principles to begin with!). One of the principles is to idiosyncratically define “the reality of time” as meaning that absolutely everything is subject to change and nothing exists outside of time, including laws.

    The fatal issue with their thesis that everything must change is “the conundrum of the meta-laws”. If the laws of nature change, it seems there must be some mechanism driving this change or determining how it changes. Unfortunately, if this were the case then this mechanism would in itself constitute an unchanging structure of “meta-laws”. If this too must change, we soon see that there must be an infinite regress.

    They both offer some proposals to resolve this conundrum but none of the proposals work, each being too vague, incoherent or even appealing to an unchanging structure of meta-laws in disguise.

    Another problem is one of mild inadvertent hypocrisy. On many fronts U&S are committing exactly the same fallacies as their opponents. Examples:

    U&S: The multiverse is unscientific.
    Me: So is the singular universe!

    U&S: Trying to explain cosmology (global scope) in the Newtonian paradigm (local scopes) is fallacious.
    Me: So is trying to explain cosmology in the historical paradigm!

    U&S: It is unacceptable to imagine either that the universe began or that it has existed forever.
    Me: Your solution is just to call the ultimate age of the universe “indefinite”, to push the problem so far back in time as to be inaccessible to science as if this brushing under the carpet resolves the dilemma. It doesn’t.

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  17. The issue of math might be clear if we were to consider how it is derived. We isolate out the ordered aspects of nature and relate them to other ordered aspects. This provides a very solid framework to understand, describe and predict nature. We assume that all of nature must be ordered and so have discovered part of this underlaying framework, if not all of it.

    The two problems with this assumption are that our point of view is subjective and we can never be quite sure how this impedes our perception of this order. Epicycles being a good example.

    The other, much larger issue, is that nature is infinite and order, by definition, is finite. The result being that we pursue extremes, of the very abstract, very large, or very small and have no overall model for connecting the various sub-models, because the only obvious connections involve fuzziness, probabilities and chaos.

    The sociological fallacy is the math as religion view of human derived models having a one to one correspondence with ontological reality and that is where the platonic issue arises, that these forms are fundamental to reality and not just abstracted from it by a human perspective. Epicycles being the most obvious example of how this assumption can prove wrong.

    As for time, it still seems there is the need to impose that narrative vector onto the situational dynamics. Why not look at it objectively as well?

    When we measure time, we measure frequency. What is frequency? It is a property of action, whether of oscillation, rotation, or waves. The duration we perceive as the vector on which these points occur is only the physical presence of the process as it is creating and dissolving the points of measurement. It is the state of what is present. All these events occur within this state. Events and entities come and go, but the underlaying energy is conserved. Why not view the present as the state of this conserved energy? Then time becomes this process of creating and dissolving distinctions within the state of the conserved energy.

    Then the irreversibility of time is due to the inertia of energy.

    As for Big Bang Theory; Given the patches required to sustain it, such as inflation and dark energy, when does it get put back in the speculative category? Theoretically the measure of expanding intergalactic space is balanced by the force of gravity, which is the contraction of intragalactic space. If galaxies are not just inert points, but “space sinks” and their cumulative effect is to balance the expansion of the space between them, how does the universe as a whole expand?

    More lightyears between galaxies is not expanding space, but increasing distance, as measured in lightyears.

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  18. Thanks for a worthwhile review. I am somewhat disappointed by the development of the ideas of a single universe and the reality of time.

    Single vs. multiple universe. Of course, in an ideal sense, there is only one universe. In a theoretical and definitional sense with empirical implications, however, there is no definitive answer as yet, either way. One can imagine a theoretical single universe pre-consciously, i.e. before processing through human consciousness. Post-consciously there are as many universes as there are observers: untold trillions of observers on earth alone, each committed to their niche. It boils down to definition of universe, keeping in mind that my universe is existentially different from that of everyone else – one is bound to respond differently as long as one’s universe is different.

    The statement that time is real is somewhat unfortunate. S&U argue that time is real because it reflects the fundamental process of change; evolution on a scale eternal. Change is only real insofar as change reflects real events in sequence. The strict reality of time or change is therefore highly questionable and could confuse innocent souls like me.

    Yes, natural philosophy is the study of nature and today that would mean grounding in science – a benign and admirable sort of scientism – while patiently sorting through misconceptions accumulated through the ages.

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  19. SocraticGadfly:

    Your reference to “Wheeler’s famous riff,” seems to be about his oft-repeated “explanation” for gravity that: “Matter tells spacetime how to curve and spacetime tells matter how to move.” You omitted a crucial ingredient: matter.

    Wheeler doesn’t really explain anything by this, however, because nobody has any idea how the telling happens. What exactly does matter do) to make spacetime curve? Nobody knows.

    Pigliucci points out that GR’s domain of application is most of the known Universe. A common myth about the empirical status of GR is that it has been tested over a wide range of this domain, from mm to AU. Commonly neglected is the fact that existing empirical evidence bears almost exclusively on the Schwarzschild EXTERIOR solution. The INTERIOR solution has never been tested.

    This is particularly relevant for the present discussion because, whereas the exterior solution treats only the most vacuous half of the gravitational Universe, outside matter, we are immersed inside the whole Universe.

    The most physically significant feature of the interior field of a uniformly dense sphere is that the rate of a clock at its center is supposed to be a minimum. The validity of GR—and by extension, standard cosmology—hinges on verification of this prediction. But there are reasons to suspect that, inside matter, clock rates actually increase to a maximum. See:

    Click to access Galileo’s-Belated-Experiment.pdf

    The objectionable features of GR (prediction of singularities and resulting theoretical “breakdown”) and reasons for inventing a model of “evolving laws” would become irrelevant if an empirical probe inside matter proved that GR’s prediction is grossly incorrect.

    A practical probe would not directly measure clock rate. Clock rate can be indirectly measured, however, by observing gravity-induced motion through the interior field. Galileo was the first to propose such an experiment: Drop a test mass into a hole through the center of a larger massive body to see what happens. The experiment could be done in a laboratory with a modified Cavendish balance or in an orbiting satellite. An apt name for the apparatus would be Small Low-Energy Non-Collider.

    If the result proves consistent with clock rates increasing to a central maximum, then this would confirm U&S’s prediction for the reality of time, but in a rather more radical way. If clock rates increase to a maximum inside matter, the dropped test mass would not oscillate, as GR predicts, because—as indicated by a co-moving accelerometer—it never accelerates downward. Instead, matter and space move outwardly around the test mass.

    The time-asymmetry problem would then be solved by the discovery that: Time only increases because space and matter also only increase. Physical dimensions are interdependent (unified). Many other cosmological implications follow, as discussed in:

    Click to access SGM-CN-and-DE-3-22-11.pdf

    Regardless of these radical theoretical ideas, the task of completing our tests of GR remains. Why don’t we fill the huge gap in our empirical knowledge of gravity by building and operating humanity’s very first Small Low-Energy Non-Collider?

    We do a disservice to science by making the spirit of Galileo wait any longer.

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  20. Hi DM,

    For instance, on U&S’s account, it must be that only one of Newton or Liebniz genuinely created the calculus, while the other merely discovered what already existed.

    But on the other hand we can imagine someone inventing the telescope in one country and someone else, independently inventing the telescope in another. We wouldn’t then say that one invented it and the other discovered what already existed, we would say the second person also invented it.

    On mathematical Platonism, well I am open either way. On the one hand it seems more parsimonious to say that mathematics is nothing besides manipulating symbols according to certain rules.

    On this view there is no right or wrong way of manipulating symbols, just useful and/or interesting ways. So a system where the numbers just went up to 87 would not be wrong, just boring and useless.

    On the other hand there are numbers for which the binary expansion cannot be enumerated, not even given infinitely many steps. And yet we know that there actually is a pattern of 1’s and 0’s which matches that binary expansion.

    That pattern is not a physical thing and neither is it an idea because it cannot ever, even in principle be thought.

    Not enough for any definite decision one way or another but an intriguing clue nevertheless.

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  21. Hi Massimo,

    Indeed, arguably the approach goes all the way back to Darwin’s own Origin of Species, which had the distinction of being written for other naturalists, and yet selling out with the general public within the first day of distribution.

    I think I can go back even further than that. Galileo’s ‘Dialogue Concerning Two Chief World Systems’ was apparently a runaway best seller (for it’s time anyway) and so might be considered an even earlier example of the kind of work you cite. Even after it was banned it continued to sell well on the black market and in countries not controlled by the Catholic Church.

    His ‘Dialogue Concerning Two New Sciences’ was also a very popular book despite the obvious difficulties it faced being published when any book by Galileo, whether it was about the Copernican world system or not, was banned by the Church.

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  22. Wow! It hasn’t been 24 hours since the essay appeared, and there are already so many comments that I feel I am too late to the party! 😉

    But anyway, a very nice review, good job by Massimo! 🙂

    That said, I haven’t read the book. But I do have some background knowledge about Lee’s research, for which this book is actually providing some philosophical context (I guess). So from that perspective, I hope my comments can be helpful.

    First of all, I have to say that — after reviewing the actual equations of Lee’s models and reading the quotes from the book — the translation from math to English makes me weep. The amount of vagueness and ambiguity is astonishingly high, and it is a miracle that even a modestly coherent picture of the theory can be inferred from the text. Of course, I probably wouldn’t be able to do it any better than the authors, so this is not a critique. It’s merely a warning for the readers, not to get ahead of themselves in trying to deduce properties of the actual theory from the descriptions given in the book. Hopefully the second (Lee’s) half will maybe be more precise.

    Reading the comments, I can see several main topics of discussion. I’ll try to address them without replying to individual comments (there are too many).

    Regarding the meaning of time. The equations of the theory feature no less than *three* distinct (and well-defined) concepts, and for each of them arguably the best translation to English is “time”. This is bound to introduce confusion. I have already tried to explain the distinction between these three versions of time, in one comment from an earlier thread. Hopefully it resolves some of the confusion.

    Regarding the naturalist philosophy and such. I don’t know the history of philosophy and the distinctions between various “isms”, but I believe that discussing the metaphysical background of Lee’s theory in a book like this is extremely important. To see why, we should keep in mind the context of the whole story — it’s about quantization of gravity. What Lee does here is one of the precious few serious attempts to take a swing at, and try to crack down, the measurement problem of QM. The mathematical framework for doing this is being developed for some time now (in the context of QG it is called “group field theory”), while the physical content (expressible in this framework) is called “third quantization” and is generally a mysterious piece of the QG puzzle. Lee’s model provides one possible clean view on how to understand and interpret third quantization. In that sense, spelling out the metaphysical background story for the model (which is arguably the point of the book) is extremely valuable, not just for philosophers but for QG experts as well.

    Third quantization is here to stay, and my advice to everyone is — get used to the metaphysics explained in the book, it is but a first example of the shape of things to come, from fundamental physics. Because if this example looks weird to you, the future will be even more weird.

    (To be continued…)

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  23. (…continued…)

    Regarding the ontology of mathematics, let me just say I’d prefer to stay away from this topic. In physics math is used as a language to express statements about Nature. Whether it is suitable for that purpose, (un)reasonably effective at it, whether it does or does not have other purposes, whether it has existence or relevance beyond being a language — I think all those questions are a bit off-topic here, and are largely a matter of taste.

    Regarding the meta-law for evolving laws of Nature. Certainly, it is assumed and it exists in the theory. The equations of the theory themselves are a description of precisely this meta-law. I can also tell you a couple of details about it — it is probabilistic, has an uncomputable component and describes time-evolution of laws of Nature in a Bayesian fashion. One starts with a certain set of probabilities that some such-and-such laws of Nature hold, if any (the Bayesian prior). As time passes, new information about Nature is being created (the uncomputable part). This new information is then used to reevaluate probabilities for the validity of the prior laws, gradually increasing the probability that some specific laws of Nature hold. As more time passes, there is ever more information being created, and some of the laws (holding in the past) fall out of favour in light of new information, while other laws rise to prominence. In this sense laws of Nature are time-dependent: they are being born, live for a while and then die away, while other take their place, etc. The meta-law describes this whole process, and is itself time-independent. This is arguably a generic property of third-quantized physics, IMO.

    Regarding general relativity. Of course, any QG model will be different from GR (it better be!). Of course, it will have different ontology. Of course, it is supposed to resolve the singularities present in GR. And of course, the QG model will *not* contradict any GR predictions in the domain where GR should be valid (arguably for anything bigger than Planck scale). These compatibility of predictions between QG and GR has (of course) nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that they are ontologically different. This property is called the “correct semiclassical limit”. And — of course — this limit has not yet been established for Lee’s model. The model is still in its infancy, this is yet to be investigated.

    Finally, regarding Cartwright and her (apparent) opinion that no theory of everything is necessary, and that we can build physics with a patchwork of independent laws, each with their domain of applications. This is not consistent. Namely, the domains of discourse for various “patch”-laws are not disjoint sets. There are always domains which lie at the intersection of at least two patch-laws, and in that intersection the laws must give mutually-consistent and identical predictions. This requirement, of sewing together the patches at their overlaps, implies that each patch is only a different rephrasing of the same underlying law, which “covers” both domains simultaneously. Since every domain intersects with some others, the whole (known) Nature can be considered as one single domain, covered by a single consistent set of laws. Those are called “theory of everything” (I could add “-so far”, because we can never have epistemological access to *all* domains). Therefore, assuming self-consistent patchwork of laws implies the existence of TOEsf, and it is very misleading to argue otherwise.

    Liked by 3 people

  24. The Universe is all there is. By definition. By philosophical definition. Just by philosophical definition?

    Not so. Any logic is associated to a universe. If the “logic” is nature itself (“all of the logic”) the associated universe (in the Logic sense), is, well, the Universe.

    If something some would want to call the “Multiverse”, whatever that would be, existed, it would part of the Universe.

    I don’t know if the Universe has an age. But it is aging, or, at least, let’s be more cautious, changing.

    Mathematics themselves have always been developed in particular directions, in light of what it was felt was needed to understand the physical world. That was certainly true with Buridan, and his students, who developed computational methods, and graphs, to handle what they wanted to do with inertia. That was true with calculus developed for all sorts of engineering and physics explanations.

    And so on through the next three centuries. However, in the last three decades, what I personally viewed as extremely erroneous notions in physics became dominant.

    Indeed, it had become that clear time was not “relative” (whatever that is supposed to mean). True, time was local, as per Relativity, but it was local in an absolute way. The absoluteness comes from Quantum Theory… And the absoluteness of curvature in cosmology (the focusing of light, by galaxies and galactic clusters is absolute, thus so is time, locally around such focusing objects!).

    Efforts were launched towards was felt would be the mathematics of “superstrings” and “field theory”. That would have been wonderful, if the initial meta-axiom motivating the whole enterprise, that nature worked with strings, super, and field mathematics perched on field math, all the way down… had been, roughly, correct.

    Mathematics is not “natural”. Or let’s not anymore “natural” than the human brain can get contrived.

    Mathematics is an adventure in what the geometry, the Quantum geometry, of neurology is capable of.

    Mathematics is not unreasonably effective. It is reason, manipulated to be effective in a particular way.

    Correctly determining in advance what the way will be makes the difference between understanding nature, and failing to do so.

    Math is just, roughly, neuronal geometry that “works” (“working” here meaning what the brain does, whatever it is, beyond just manipulating electric and chemical signals).
    Is time simply the order in which things happen?

    Poincare’ showed that the apparent order of things depended upon the state of motion of the observer. This was an essential ingredient of what he called “Relativity”.

    However Quantum physics gives an absolute order, from the way Quantum entanglement comes and goes. That sort-of contradiction has not been solved. It looks to me as if Quantum entanglement can allow to define absolutely, non-locally the structure of the Universe.

    Intriguingly, this is becoming an experimental field. Entanglement is central to the principle of Quantum computation, and how it propagates, the core of the problem. Once we understand that, and we will, we will understand the organization of the Universe much better.

    Liked by 1 person

  25. Hi DM,

    Unfortunately, if this were the case then this mechanism would in itself constitute an unchanging structure of “meta-laws”. If this too must change, we soon see that there must be an infinite regress.

    And they are infinity skeptics. And even if there was such a regress then we would be left (as I think Leibniz pointed out) we would still be left with the question of why there is this kind of infinite regress and not another (simple repeaters for example).

    So U&S are not removing the ‘brute fact’ question, merely pushing it further back.

    Like

  26. Excellent book review.

    There are two key issues:

    S1, is arrow-of-time fundamental?

    S2, is math invented solely by human?

    These two issues can be answered easily.

    I have showed that most of key issues in physics (nature) can be resolved ONLY with two numbers {64, 48}, see https://scientiasalon.wordpress.com/2015/03/20/the-nature-of-the-past-hypothesis/comment-page-1/#comment-12921 .

    There are only two way to derive these two numbers.

    W1, arrow-of-time is the emergent of TIMELESSNESS, and these two numbers emerge from the transformation process.

    W2, they come out in a math process (the infinities transform to concrete objects process), and this is described in detail in the book “Linguistics Manifesto” (page 46-47).

    At least, the W2 is not a human invention.

    If Roberto Mangabeira Unger and Lee Smolin can derive nature constants via other pathway (not using {64, 48}), …

    Like

  27. I have three comments:

    1. In regard to your statement:

    “Time is, if I understand U&S correctly, simply the succession of causal connections between events. This succession can locally take place at a different pace, but this does not invalidate the universally true fact that certain things (like, most obviously, the Big Bang) happened before (meaning that they were causally antecedent to) others.”

    I totally agree, but I’ve seen this idea mentioned many times before, at least by amateurs. It doesn’t seem to be a new idea, but it is good that it’s being promoted again. As I go over this at my website, this idea says to me that if time is a succession of causal events, then time can never go backwards because you can’t reduce the number of causal events that have occurred. An effort to reduce these events is itself an event and thus time keeps moving forwards. Even if a broken coffee cup were to somehow spontaneously reform, it’s not because time is going backwards, it’s because some additional events have occurred that happen to reform the cup.

    2. I’ve always wondered why people think that just because you can change the sign of time in an abstract equation and have the equation work just as well, then that means that you can reverse the sign of time in the actual world. Abstract equations and the actual world are not the same thing.

    3. I think the reason math works so well at describing the world is that math was invented by humans to describe the world. That is, the concept “1 + 1 = 2” in the mind is meant to describe what happens when you have one apple and then you move another apple over to it and put them in a group, and what you get is something called two apples. It doesn’t seem mysterious to me.

    Liked by 5 people

  28. Interesting, but probably not something I would enjoy reading in its entirety myself.

    I will leave my hands off Mathematical Platonism except to say that it doesn’t convince me. pete1187 tries to address the problem of where those mathematical objects are by pointing at physical reality, but then this Plantonism boils down to a deepity without any relevant difference from what is apparently called nominalism.

    The multiverse discussion frustrates me greatly, partly because it is so difficult to understand what people actually mean. I see at least two completely different concepts: (1) multiple universes being created through cosmic inflation, just like ours was, or perhaps one universe producing daughter universes out of singularities or suchlike, and (2) legs of time or Many-Worlds-Interpretation style parallel universes. The former sound plausible given certain assumptions – if our universe can be inferred to have condensed out of a larger ‘soup’ of inflation the rest of which would have continued to expand, then it seems fairly sensible to assume that the same would happen again in other parts of the same ‘soup’. (If not, then not.) This is how I understand some astrophysicists.

    But the latter is bizarre. I remember a post over on Sean Carroll’s blog where he argued that Many Worlds followed mathematically from quantum states, so we will just have to accept it. Several commenters then tried repeatedly to get a clarification whether he really, actually, seriously believed that a whole complete additional universe poofed into existence whenever the wave function of any particle somewhere 500 million light years away collapsed, while others speculated that he cannot have meant it like that and tried to construct elaborate but unconvincing rationalisations of his pronouncement that didn’t involve the complete gazillionfold copying of the universe flagrantly violating conservation of mass and suchlike.

    But the point is, Carroll himself never really clarifies what is going on, never provides a clear illustration of where the many worlds are relative to us, etc.; he always leaves it at the math says it, so I believe it. But one could argue that when a model gives a totally absurd result, such as everything that exists being effortlessly duplicated because something happens to one particle, then the model must be wrong. I mean, if evolutionary biologists did a time-calibrated phylogenetic analysis and inferred that the mammals originated before the formation of the planet, they would not wave around their methods and say, that’s the result, accept it. They would start searching for what they did wrong. (Perhaps this observation ties in nicely with the over-reliance on math observed in the book under discussion.)

    As for the laws of nature, I second Coel. I fail to see the difference between ‘idealised models’ and ‘true maps of the world’. A map is an idealised model, and truth in science is always, without exception, tentative and approximative. Seems like a non-distinction.

    Liked by 4 people

  29. Dominik,

    “Why do U&S think that the entropic arrow of time is insufficient to explain the directionality of time?”

    I don’t think they do. I think their argument would be that that condition has to be imposed from the outside as a brute fact, it doesn’t come from any fundamental, time-invariant theory. And I’m not sure why you seem to think that the arrow of time saves only phenomenological time.

    “Why does Cartwright think we cannot get classical mechanics from quantum mechanics?”

    She doesn’t. She is just saying that all physical theories are phenomenological, not fundamental.

    Patrick,

    “I thought physicists in general hold the opinion that in the neighbourhood of this singularity general relativity breaks down.”

    Not the impression I got from reading Unger & Smolin.

    Incidentally, everyone, in the following discussion I will assume that the authors get the physics right. First, because I’m no position to adjudicate otherwise; second, because one of the author is a high visibility physicist who has written controversial things before, and yet even when his colleagues have criticized him they have never done so on the basis of alleged mischaracterization of the science.

    “while the idea may be attractive, I would like to see the formulas first.”

    The formulas aren’t any different, since U&S explicitly say that general relativity and quantum mechanics, for instance, are here to stay. It all hinges about what they call the “metaphysical” baggage that physicists are willing to attach to these theories. That’s why they characterize the book as natural philosophy rather than straight science.

    ToT,

    “Does this description of time not contain two definitions? For how else could time go at different paces at different times, without an overarching meta-time?”

    I don’t see the problem if time is conceived as the sequence of causal interactions. Those interactons can occur at what locally looks like different paces (but even that is measured comparatively to other causal interactions). Or maybe simply I don’t understand full well what U&S have in mind. Blame me, not them.

    Peter,

    “Is it possible to reconcile the view that time is real with the idea that time is no more than a succession of causal elements?”

    I don’t see why not. Indeed, that seems what U&S *mean* by reality of time. Causality is basic.

    “In a more general history, if I’m getting the point here, we would have to add the entire literature of mysticism.”

    Not really, there is nothing mystical in the book.

    “it would be the orthodox view for Buddhists and their like.”

    Good for the Buddhists, but that’s not where U&S are getting it from.

    “This comment seems a bit underwhelming in the circumstances. We could add the names of Nagarjuna, Weyl, Schrodinger, Lao Tsu, Meister Eckhart, Bradley, the Buddha, the writers of the Upanishads, Al Halaj and many more”

    By all means. It doesn’t change much, as far as I can see.

    Socratic,

    “It would be another to say that “space is simply the interplay of physical locations” or something like that.”

    I believe that comes close to what U&S are saying. They conceive of both time and space as relational, not as “things” in themselves.

    “Per general relativity, why should we treat our approach to time as a dimension differently than our approach to the three spatial dimensions?”

    Because, among other things, the standard interpretation does not justice to the discovery that the universe has a definite age. This notion, which U&S call the most fundamental discovery in cosmology, is hard to square with the notion that there is no absolute time.

    “Then we get into the laws of nature changing over time, etc. I’m not quite ready to call that “meta-time,” though”

    No need, the suggestion is the causality is fundamental, so it is causal interactions that change.

    pete,

    “In this framework, the symmetries and structures that mathematics describes are physically instantiated in the world. They’re not in some abstract realm, but embedded here in our reality. This immediately answers the question of where the realm is”

    Maybe, but your description doesn’t sound like Platonism at all.

    “if the realm is instantiated right here in front of us, then there isn’t really a mystery to be solved here.”

    Right, but again, we are not talking Platonism.

    “Physical objects are made of atoms. Those atoms, however, are something like 99.9999% empty space. The subatomic particles comprising the other 0.0001% or so don’t do much to make things more “physical.””

    I know, but I find that argument wholly unconvincing. First off, there is no such thing as “empty space.” There are fields everywhere. Second, it doesn’t matter how relatively little “physical” stuff there is in the universe, there still is some, and it is responsible for everything we actually call “the universe.” Considering mathematical structures “real,” instead, gets us nowhere because nobody — not even Max Tegmark (trust me, I’ve seen him stumbling in a room full of philosophers) — can make any sense of the concept.

    “Literally, they are considered in modern particle physics as zero-dimensional mathematical point particles”

    Yeah, I see that as a limitation of modern particle physics, not as a reflection of how the universe is.

    “modern science shows us that physical matter is something far stranger than we might have expected”

    Indeed. But it doesn’t show us that it is “made of” math, whatever that means.

    “This is a very strange thing for some people to adopt, but its not a choice they can make.”

    It looks more like a nonsensical thing from where I stand.

    David,

    “No orbital spin ever changes, no wave function ever collapses. It seems extremely plausible to think that such a world could exist for thousands of years. Time would pass while nothing changed”

    Since U&S *define* time in terms of changing causal interactions, such in such a world the very concept of time would not make sense.

    “I have never been able to square your anti-realism about mathematics with your realism about science.”

    I square it in a similar way to how I square realism about a physical description of my university with anti-realism about my concept of “university.” I just don’t see why one would think that realism about physical entities requires realism about concepts.

    “then science consisting as it does in the application of mathematical models to the natural world”

    Only a comparatively small percentage of science can be described that way. Science is the empirical investigation of facts about the world, aided, when possible, by mathematics.

    “if mathematics is a human construction with degrees of arbitrariness settled by human construction, not nature, isn’t it extremely plausible to think that every human language is this same way?”

    I see no problem there. Yes, human languages are contingent and limited, and yet they do a pretty good job at describing lots of aspects of the world. Mathematical language does even better, but it is still a (human constructed) language.

    Like

  30. ToT,

    “I am not entirely sure just yet which of these time-definitions U&S address, or if they are instead adding yet another definition: iv) relational causal time separating causes from effects”

    That one.

    Coel,

    “I’m glad to see people promoting the scientismistic idea that “science” and “philosophy” are not separate domains.”

    We’ve been over this a million time, and you insist in mischaracterizing my position: I think of science and philosophy as largely distinct (think of the distance in epistemic space between fundamental physics and, say, aesthetics), but also characterized by areas of overlap and interaction.

    (about the multiverse): “That word should be “assert”, not “explain’’!”

    No, they provide their (very sound, in my mind) reasons for rejecting the notion. You might want to check them out.

    “The claim of “tension” is overdone, since few physicists argue for an actual singularity”

    If they don’t, then that’s one less problem U&S have to deal with. But that isn’t the impression I got.

    “Well no, the Cartesian-Newtonian camp, as you call it, does not hold sway in physics. De facto, physicists see “laws of nature” as descriptions of how nature works, part of a Quinean-style web of ideas”

    I seriously doubt many physicists have even heard of Quine, and moreover that they hold to the notion of a web of knowledge as opposed to seeking a fundamental “theory of everything.” Maybe we just frequent different physics circles. Mine includes Weinberg, however, who thinks exactly along the lines sketched by U&S.

    “The idea that “laws” are “agents” that go around “telling” matter what to do is silly.”

    Your characterization of what I wrote in this respect, I’m afraid, is silly. You are confusing my description of how Descartes and Newton thought of laws with how their descendants do.

    “Except that, if nature is a unified seamless whole (which it seems to be) then the best explanations/descriptions will also be seamless and unified”

    That follows from what, exactly? Explanations are human constructs, not stuff one reads in the “book of nature.” That Galileian metaphor has done a lot of metaphysical damage to science, I’m afraid.

    “Theoretical physics is always *trying* to go beyond the empirical”

    So does any theoretical science. And it works, so long as there is a relatively short and secure tether between theory and the empirical. Which is what is missing in a lot of fundamental physics these days.

    “this distinction is a non-distinction. It would only be a sensible distinction if anyone thought that “laws” were agents going around telling stuff what to do.”

    The distinction seems obviously clear to me, you may want to look at the original. There is no talk of agents, you are building a straw man.

    “Yes, exactly, we observe predictable regularity and codify that in a “law”. Again, this is accepted commonplace.”

    It very obviously *isn’t*, otherwise string theory and multiverses would make no sense. On which observed regularities are these notions based? They are very clearly attempts to derive the empirical from first principles, which is precisely what U&S objects to, and rightly so.

    “As just one example, take the “multiverse” idea that different regions of the universe might have different “fundamental constants” owing to historical contingency. The whole inflationary model of the Big Bang explains our observed universe in terms of symmetry-breaking “accidents’’.”

    I don’t see how this is related at all to the point you were responding to, which is that physicists need to take cosmology as a fundamental historical science. Constructing entirely unobservable entities such as multiverses, and then “explaining” them theoretically is the antithesis of taking cosmology seriously as a historical science.

    Philip,

    “Suppose the universe is a computer U”

    I don’t.

    DM,

    glad we agree on the interest of natural philosophy (and on Unger’s writing style…).

    “not because the universe has an age but because the universe has a history during which it has undergone profound changes”

    That’s what they mean by “age,” since they define time in terms of successions of causal interactions.

    “I always took the age of the universe at 13.8 billion years to be its age from the perspective of our particular reference frame”

    Tat is definitely not the way U&S take it, or — if they are right — cosmologists in general.

    “Unfortunately, I don’t think you do understand U&S correctly. U&S argue that their thesis demands a universal ordering of events according to a global time, something that is assumed not to exist in relativity”

    DM, you really would do well to stop claiming that I don’t understand things when we disagree (see our endless discussions about p-zombies). It may be, or you might not, or perhaps we both do. Your re-description of what U&S say seems to me to fit perfectly well with what I take them to say.

    (Incidentally, all, both Smolin and Unger know about this article and the ensuing discussion, and are interested. Hopefully they’ll chime in at some point.)

    “this doesn’t work because different events can be completely causally disconnected if they are outside each others light cones”

    They did address this very point in the book.

    “If I understand them correctly, these reference frames are outside of any gravitational influence, perhaps at rest with respect to the mean velocity of the bodies in the observable universe.”

    I don’t recall anything like that in the book.

    “There is also no particular scientific reason to believe in a singular universe.”

    Except for the fact that that is the best interpretation of our empirical observations.

    “Carroll, Tegmark and others have argued that this view is one or other kind of multiverse.”

    I’m aware of that, but with all due respect, I think Tegmark has no idea of what he is talking about, metaphysically speaking, and Carroll is in a minority with his acceptance of Everett-style QM, among other things.

    “I echo pete1187’s objections to the characterisation of Platonism as mystical.”

    See above.

    “These are not physical objects, so they don’t need a place to exist in.”

    Again, you (purposefully?) underestimate my intelligence, it seems. I never claim that there is a place where mathematical structures reside. But if one makes claims of ontological reality, then one needs a good account of such reality, whatever it is. As I said, when Tegmark was asked about it after his talk at the Graduate Center he stumbled badly, making no sense at all.

    “There are different ways to think about existence, and Platonism is just another way of doing that”

    See above. This doesn’t get the Platonist off the hook until we get a good grip on both the ontological claim and its epistemological implications.

    “We perceive it just as U&S describe, by abstracting structure away from the particular instances we find”

    But that’s a constructivist, not Platonist, view of mathematics.

    “I agree with Coel that U&S make way too much of the singularity predicted by GR. GR is not a final fundamental theory”

    Nor do they claim it is (remember, they, or at the least Smolin, know their physics). Their argument does not depending the least from assuming that GR is fundamental.

    Like

  31. Massimo: “Yes, human languages are contingent and limited, and yet they do a pretty good job at describing lots of aspects of the world. Mathematical language does even better, but it is still a (human constructed) language.”

    Mathematical language does better because the world is a computer. There is no other explanation I am aware of.

    Like

  32. DM,

    “The basic foundation of their view is a case of wishful thinking. They want it to be possible to explain conclusively and scientifically why the laws of nature are the way they are”

    Please, that is precisely the same hope that motivates string theory and talk about the multiverse. C’mon.

    “They then make the entirely unwarranted leap that because we *want* to be able to explain the origin of the laws of nature scientifically, it *must* be the case that the laws of nature developed over time.”

    That is an entirely inaccurate description of their program, and certainly constitutes no argument against them.

    “they take it further, describing as fallacious other views which may be philosophically justified.”

    That’s because research programs in science that are largely, or even entirely, decoupled from empiricism *are* fallacious.

    “One of the principles is to idiosyncratically define “the reality of time” as meaning that absolutely everything is subject to change and nothing exists outside of time, including laws”

    I find nothing idiosyncratic about it, and it provides arguments, not just stipulations. Did you actually read it?

    “The fatal issue with their thesis that everything must change is “the conundrum of the meta-laws”.”

    Which, of course, they address, repeatedly.

    “U&S: The multiverse is unscientific.
    Me: So is the singular universe!”

    Me (Massimo) “They are right, you are not!” I doubt this sort of exercise will get us anywhere…

    brodix,

    “As for time, it still seems there is the need to impose that narrative vector onto the situational dynamics”

    If time is defined in terms of causality, then the direction is built into it, since causes “precede” effects.

    Liam,

    “One can imagine a theoretical single universe pre-consciously, i.e. before processing through human consciousness. Post-consciously there are as many universes as there are observers”

    You are talking about subjective judgments, they are talking about physical reality. Not the same thing.

    “Change is only real insofar as change reflects real events in sequence. The strict reality of time or change is therefore highly questionable and could confuse innocent souls like me.”

    I’m honestly confused by your confusion. I don’t see your first sentence leading to the second one, could you elaborate?

    Marko,

    “The amount of vagueness and ambiguity is astonishingly high, and it is a miracle that even a modestly coherent picture of the theory can be inferred from the text.”

    I thought you said you didn’t read the book… 😉

    “I believe that discussing the metaphysical background of Lee’s theory in a book like this is extremely important. To see why, we should keep in mind the context of the whole story — it’s about quantization of gravity”

    Yes, good point.

    “Third quantization is here to stay, and my advice to everyone is — get used to the metaphysics explained in the book, it is but a first example of the shape of things to come, from fundamental physics. Because if this example looks weird to you, the future will be even more weird.”

    Thanks for the warning!

    “Whether it is suitable for that purpose, (un)reasonably effective at it, whether it does or does not have other purposes, whether it has existence or relevance beyond being a language — I think all those questions are a bit off-topic here, and are largely a matter of taste.”

    Fine with me, but I brought it up because the critique of Platonism does some important work for U&S. Namely, it allows them to question / reject certain conclusions / extrapolations (infinite singularities, multiverse) that are considered seriously by physicists — in U&S’s telling — only because they *seem* to derive from mathematical treatment of the issues. Most importantly, they see the time-symmetry of mathematics as a fundamental mental block that has led a number of physicists to deny the reality of time. So, it’s not just a gratuitous attack on Platonism.

    “Regarding the meta-law for evolving laws of Nature. Certainly, it is assumed and it exists in the theory.”

    Which theory? I find much more congenial to think without either laws or meta-laws, treating laws as descriptions of the (more fundamental) causal interactions.

    “In this sense laws of Nature are time-dependent: they are being born, live for a while and then die away, while other take their place, etc. The meta-law describes this whole process, and is itself time-independent”

    That’s not the way U&S describes it, pretty explicitly. They reject any talk of meta-law.

    (about Cartwright): “This is not consistent. Namely, the domains of discourse for various “patch”-laws are not disjoint sets.”

    You seem to be thinking of physics primarily (and even there, her view doesn’t require disjoint sets, only partially overlapping one — that would still negate the possibility of any “theory of everything”). But think about, say, biology, or the social sciences. What sort of general theory could possibly encompass both fundamental physics and the “special” (i.e., everything outside fundamental physics, including much of the rest of physics) sciences?

    “This requirement, of sewing together the patches at their overlaps, implies that each patch is only a different rephrasing of the same underlying law, which “covers” both domains simultaneously.”

    I don’t see why that follows at all.

    Roger,

    “this idea says to me that if time is a succession of causal events, then time can never go backwards because you can’t reduce the number of causal events that have occurred.”

    Correct. So much for my delight in scifi’s time travel story lines…

    “Abstract equations and the actual world are not the same thing.”

    Yup.

    “I think the reason math works so well at describing the world is that math was invented by humans to describe the world.”

    Yes, that and the fact that it relies on a strategy of abstracting from particulars. The latter, according to U&S, is both its great power and its Achille’s heel (see “epicycles,” as brodix would say).

    Alex,

    “pete1187 tries to address the problem of where those mathematical objects are by pointing at physical reality, but then this Plantonism boils down to a deepity without any relevant difference from what is apparently called nominalism.”

    Exactly.

    “multiple universes being created through cosmic inflation, just like ours was, or perhaps one universe producing daughter universes out of singularities or suchlike”

    Actually, even those are distinct. U&S don’t seem to have a problem with the second one, because those baby universes would be causally connected (and hence at the least potentially understandable by science).

    “legs of time or Many-Worlds-Interpretation style parallel universes”

    They definitely reject that as a second example (the other one being multiverse in the first sense above) of wishful thinking, a way to cover what they see the failure of modern physics and make it look like a success. As you might have gathered so far, I am very sympathetic to that way of looking at the issue.

    “Several commenters then tried repeatedly to get a clarification whether he really, actually, seriously believed that a whole complete additional universe poofed into existence whenever the wave function of any particle somewhere 500 million light years away collapsed”

    Yeah, I wrote to Sean directly about that. He explained that those gazillion universes are being created in Hilbert space. Which doesn’t seem to be to solve the issue at all.

    “But one could argue that when a model gives a totally absurd result, such as everything that exists being effortlessly duplicated because something happens to one particle, then the model must be wrong”

    Yes, you see why U&S, while appreciating the power of mathematical modeling, also caution against following it as if it were a god…

    Philip,

    “Mathematical language does better because the world is a computer. There is no other explanation I am aware of.”

    See my comment above about the power (and limits) of math deriving from its methodology of idealization. You seem to assume that math is always a better description of the word, but it manifestly isn’t. Does the computer go off line some of the times?

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  33. Massimo – Thanks for the reply.

    – “Indeed, that seems what U&S *mean* by reality of time. Causality is basic”.

    If causality requires time, and causality is basic, then is not something amiss with our reasoning? .

    – “there is nothing mystical in the book.”

    It appears to be full of orthodox mystical ideas, albeit they’re not credited. It seems important to give credit where it’s due.

    “Good for the Buddhists, but that’s not where U&S are getting it from.”

    Probably not, since it seems unknown to them. Rather, they choose to try to re-invent the wheel as if it’s theirs. They’re peddling very old ideas about the relativity of existence that are much better developed elsewhere. It seems dishonest to me.

    – “ We could add the names of Nagarjuna, Weyl, Schrodinger, Lao Tsu, Meister Eckhart, Bradley, the Buddha, the writers of the Upanishads, Al Halaj and many more”

    – By all means. It doesn’t change much, as far as I can see.”

    Well, I suppose you’re right. But It changes everything perceptually. It might help to stop people complaining mindlessly about ‘woo’ as if mysticism is irrelevant to this discussion. It would indicate the strength of the authors idea on global relativism, its long history and its unfalsifiability. It might lead people to read Weyl, a truly deep thinker, on the reality of time and space, It would also indicates the way in which rational enquiry always leads us to the same place and always has. It would also make it more clear that the authors, on the basis of this review, are not proposing any new ideas. As ever, I get the impression that physicists tend to be highly prone to ‘non-invented-here’ syndrome.

    I haven’t read it, though, and perhaps there’s more to it than it seems. At this point I suspect that the review may an adequate substitute for the first half of the book, but only a reader can make this call.

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  34. Hi Massimo,

    think of the distance in epistemic space between fundamental physics and, say, aesthetics

    There’s also a large distance between fundamental physics and studying, say chimpanzee politics, but they’re still both “science”.

    If [physicists] don’t [argue for a singularity] then that’s one less problem U&S have to deal with. But that isn’t the impression I got.

    Have a read of this by Matt Strassler for what seems to me the typical attitude of physicists. E.g. “I’ve talked over the years with many experts in “quantum gravity” and I’ve never spoken to one who believed that the universe began with a real singularity”.

    I seriously doubt many physicists have even heard of Quine, and moreover that they hold to the notion of a web of knowledge as opposed to seeking a fundamental “theory of everything.”

    You’re right that many won’t have heard of Quine — they get their understanding of science from science, not from philosophers — but the general idea of a “web of ideas” is prevalent. That is not at odds with searching for a “theory of everything”. Firstly, the ToE is the *target*, that one tries to adjust the Web to attain.

    Secondly, as Marko explains, if the web is *consistent* in the areas of overlap, that turns it into a unified theory.

    Third, despite the hype-phrase “ToE”, everyone knows that a physics ToE only deals with *one* aspect of physics, namely the fundamental interactions, not with any of the emergent physics, let alone the rest of science. Nobody thinks that one would be able to take the ToE, do a few quick calculations, and then predict what a named chimpanzee will being doing next Wednesday afternoon at 4:30 pm.

    It very obviously *isn’t*, otherwise string theory and multiverses would make no sense. On which observed regularities are these notions based? They are very clearly attempts to derive the empirical from first principles, …

    This is a complete misunderstanding of how physicists think. Take the cosmological multiverse. This is very much observationally driven. The whole idea of “inflation” was invented to explain otherwise puzzling *observations* of the universe.

    Inflation-based models have since done a very good job of *predicting* features of the cosmic microwave background that have since been *verified* by WMAP and Planck (e.g. see the second plot down here).

    Now, it is very hard to construct a working inflation model that does not generate a multiverse (i.e., bubble regions of non-inflationary space, or “universes”, within an inflationary-state surrounding). That is why many cosmologists favour a multiverse. To “which observed regularities” motivate the multiverse, the answer is the features of the CMB, as in the plot just linked to.

    As for string theory, well that is again driven by trying to marry two theories that are themselves both motivated by observation. In the domain of overlap, those two theories (QM and GR) give inconsistent results. Physicists will indeed try to think from basic principles in order to resolve the issue, but the whole enterprise is still motivated by data.

    Constructing entirely unobservable entities such as multiverses, and then “explaining” them theoretically is the antithesis of taking cosmology seriously as a historical science.

    Again, that is not what is happening. The idea of an inflationary episode is very much observationally driven. The idea that the universe was in a *different* state, with different physics applying, very early on, and then dropped into a non-inflationary state is exactly what you’re asking for — treating cosmology as a historical science, where contingent events early on stamp their mark on how the universe is today!

    The idea of a chaotic-inflation multiverse is then a *consequence* of that data-driven reasoning.

    [By the way, I agree with your arguments against Platonism, and against MWI multiple-worlds. Both of those are very much minority tastes in physics.]

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  35. At 3:20 the Neurologist mentions Kant’s statement that “music is the quickening art”. Music cuts through the brain to our emotions or because the brain is modular and emotions are at the bottom of everything. If the universe appears mathematical or scalar and relational, well the very module by which we observe and communicate it scientifically is an adaption of our visual system functions which integrate with our sensorimotor modules. Better put mathematics is a human adaptation of these modules which we share with other primates. We also extract the sense of time from these modules as well.

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  36. Massimo: “Does the computer go off line some of the times?”‘

    That is a very interesting question. We don’t know yet what is the complete material nature of computer that the world is (S. Barry Cooper). It could have a paraconsistent behavior. (The appropriate programming language would not be “mathematical” in some idealized sense.)

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  37. Hi Massimo,

    I see no problem there. Yes, human languages are contingent and limited, and yet they do a pretty good job at describing lots of aspects of the world. Mathematical language does even better, but it is still a (human constructed) language.

    Let me make a big and important distinction here.

    Suppose some alien civilisation sent us a message intended to say “Hi, we’re the Shing, were nice, let’s be friends”, we couldn’t hope to understand it because the meaning of language is not inherent in the symbols. They couldn’t possibly communicate anything to us in an ordinary language for this reason. We could not even tell whether or not there was any meaning in it.

    But if they sent us the first 50 prime numbers encoded in binary then we could understand them straight away.

    Moreover we would then have enough knowledge to send them a message specifying an advanced mathematical language which they could understand and use to communicate back to us, using nothing but high and low values.

    For example we could send some simple additions in a schema which would make it clear our method for encapsulating data and for distinguishing numbers and operators, as well as letting them know what operators we are using for addition and equality.

    Then we could continue with showing our operators for subtraction, multiplication, division etc. Having established division we could then show a method for representing decimal numbers. From there we can show ways of representing functions and pi. We could show a way of representing logical operators and logic.

    There might be mathematical concepts that would be difficult to communicate – oracles for example.

    But we could represent most mathematical concepts in the language.

    All in norhing but a series of high and low values to a civilisaiton of which we know nothing expect they can send radio signals and understand prime numbers and who know nothing of us.

    It is not speculation that we could do this, it wouldn’t even require great intelligence to construct this message – I could do it up to the mathematics that I understand and the language would be sufficient for expressing mathematics I don’t understand.

    So, no, I disagree that it is just a language that is better at doing some things than others.

    It is different, at least, because it is possible to encapsulate the meaning in the representation as I have described above and that is beyond what any other language can do.

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  38. Roger: “I’ve always wondered why people think that just because you can change the sign of time in an abstract equation and have the equation work just as well, then that means that you can reverse the sign of time in the actual world. Abstract equations and the actual world are not the same thing.”

    If you open the book “physics 101”, it does not teach you that the change the sign of time in an equation means reverse the time. It simply means that that equation works now was also correct one day (or one billion years) ago and will be correct one day (or one billion years) after now.

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  39. Massimo,

    “If time is defined in terms of causality, then the direction is built into it, since causes “precede” effects.”

    My point has been that time is an effect of causality, not defined by it. For instance, does yesterday cause today and today cause tomorrow, or does the sun shining on a spinning planet cause this effect called “days,” for those of us located on this planet? So does the cause of the sun shining on the planet precede the effect of days, or is the relation temporally simultaneous?

    As for causal events, the event of a batter swinging at a ball precedes the effect of the ball flying over the outfield fence, because of the energy transferred from the bat to the ball. So one event is causal to another when there is a transfer of energy from one event to another.

    Now our minds function by processing the form/information, not the energy, so we think of the sequence of days and the event of the batter hitting the ball as equivalent sequences, like frames of a movie.

    The issue of symmetric time is that time is being treated as a scalar measure, in spacetime, just like distance. A unit of time would be the same duration if we measure from start to finish, or finish to start, just as a foot is a foot, whether we measure from left to right, or right to left.

    The Platonic assumption is the measurement and the model are fundamental to the physical reality, not merely abstracted from it. It is this assumption of fundamentality on which the premise of the “fabric of spacetime” is based. Which is why I keep referring back to epicycles, since the same presumption, that the mathematical model is physically manifest, was made. ‘Spacetime” is the modern version of giant cosmic gearwheels.

    When we measure time, we are measuring the frequency of a particular action and an action is movement and thus going one direction. It is the energy going from one form to another and the inertia of this energy is more fundamental than a measured unit of it, because the inertia is the energy, while a measure is a quantification of it. Such as a day is a quantification of one spin of the planet.

    Entropy only arises when there are quantities of energetic forms interacting and in a stable context, settle into equilibrium. As such is a much more complex and higher level of description.

    Just to reiterate a pet peeve, if you are going to question such premises as mathematical platonism, time travel, multiverses, etc, when are you willing to consider the Big Bang theory is also highly speculative and based on various conceptual contradictions and enormous fudge factors? Yes, it is taken for granted by the physics community, but as a philosopher, your job is not threatened by looking at it more closely.

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  40. Hi Massimo,

    You correctly point out my subjectivity when you write: “You are talking about subjective judgments, they (U&S) are talking about physical reality. Not the same thing.”

    You clearly suggest that U&S are not being subjective, but that can not be correct. All statements, even about physical reality, emanating from anyone’s brain are subjective. My contention is that this is not a trivial problem but a huge one. As discussed before in another thread, humans can not know the ding an sich. When we look up at the Milky Way, what do we see? Imagine the profound differences of seeing in the minds of Ptolemy, Galileo and Einstein. The photons impinging on their retinas were pretty much the same but what each one ‘saw’ was a completely different universe. I sympathize with the problems that physicists have: they are heading in the same direction, but coming at it from different angles. It is extremely interesting to watch. I suspect U&S are correct – mathematics is a very powerful language but has serious flaws. What is perhaps needed for a ToE to be formulated is that a group of astrophysicists with PhDs in neuropsychology get together.

    The distinction of what is real and what is not trips everyone up. Having struggled with this little problem for a while, the best definition seems to be that any thing or any non-thing that persists independently of the mind is real. All other mental constructs are not real, even though they exist in our minds, and even though the thought process itself is real. Therefore, the thought of Santa is real, Santa not so much. The thought of time is real, time maybe not. The processes of the cosmos are real, but our thoughts about them seem to be a mixture of real and ideal. This problem is an inevitable consequence of how our brains function. Time, change and causality seems more like mental constructs than actual processes in reality.

    On the one end there is the universe of reality as it is, on the other there is the ideal universe of our thoughts and beliefs about reality (as it appears in consciousness) and many other large and important categories. Interposed there is the biological reality of information processing and communication. The three domains of 1) reality as it is, 2) biological information processing, and 3) culture and ideal existence cover everything real, ideal and virtual – my proto-ToE. 🙂

    Everything real that we are aware of as humans is a mental construct, most components of which are the neurological artifacts through which we become phenomenologically aware of the world.

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  41. Robin’s point above is very cogent with regards to mathematics and language. This one is another very common point I hear, that math “is simply another language like (insert natural language here)…”

    That is manifestly false. Whatever the complex origins of verbal communication among human beings, its clear that they came about to relay information between individuals in a group. That is not what mathematics is about. The better characterization (which has been said before by mathematicians like Ian Stewart) is that mathematics is more akin to a science of patterns/structures. That is a world away from a system that allows us to communicate thoughts and emotions in a reasonably coherent manner.

    Thanks for your replies Massimo! I’ll try to dive into responses to your thoughts/concerns as best as I can.

    1) Right, but again, we are not talking Platonism.

    I think we’re getting hung up on the term “Platonism,” so I should probably just stick with “mathematical realism,” as this would include old fashioned (platonic heaven) Platonism, Aristotelian Realism (can also throw in Mill/Quine/Putnam style Empirical Realism), Mathematical Structural Realism, etc.

    If there is a mathematical Lie Group(s) that is/are found to govern the interactions of fundamental particles (there are, and they form the basis of the Standard Model of Particle Physics, and will be virtually guaranteed to remain foundational to any other refined theories down the road), then would you not say that they are in fact real and embedded in the world? Because if the answer is yes, then you are by definition a mathematical realist. No distant land of “perfect spheres and triangles” is necessary.

    2) “if the realm is instantiated right here in front of us, then there isn’t really a mystery to be solved here.”

    Well lets say we’re not talking about old fashioned Platonic-heaven Platonism. What are we talking about? If its something along the lines of “Hmmm, well yes that is indeed interesting, but still, whatever complex structure group theory completely describes isn’t actually out there. Umm, its just a bunch of particles that move around in that exact way, but still its only a representation!!” then in my humble opinion we have a big denial problem here. It’s akin to saying that we talk about “electrons” and their properties in the English language (or any other one), but the English language is only representing a concept that maps well onto the world. No sir, the electrons are out there (as are the structures that ground the Standard Model, our most precise empirical theory to date).

    3) “First off, there is no such thing as “empty space.” There are fields everywhere. Second, it doesn’t matter how relatively little “physical” stuff there is in the universe, there still is some, and it is responsible for everything we actually call “the universe.”

    I understand that according to QFT there are fields everywhere, in fact many believe that there are no particles at all, only excitations of fields, which makes things even more unphysical (and that means that no, there isn’t even relatively little “stuff,” there’s none) What do you mean by “fields” though? No physicist (or anyone else for that matter) can tell you what they are, only that they are the most fundamental components of reality. Sounds pretty nutty (hell even “abstract”) to me. You know what we do know though? That our best theories describe them in mathematical terms and indeed as mathematical structures.

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  42. Hi Massimo,

    I know I’m glossing over stuff. Comment limits and all that. This comment is a long one so I hope you will let it count for two and then I’ll be done with this thread.

    > That’s what they mean by “age,” since they define time in terms of successions of causal interactions.

    OK, but the argument you present is not theirs. There is absolutely nothing troubling to a B-theory of time that the universe has an age. On a B-theory of time, time becomes similar to space and the age of the universe becomes a co-ordinate that locates the speaker in a timeline, so when I say “The universe is 13.8 billion years old”, this is equivalent to saying “I am speaking at a moment 13.8 billion years along a timeline since the BB in my reference frame”. The crucial point I think they are making is that the universe has changed over the course of its history.

    > DM, you really would do well to stop claiming that I don’t understand things

    If I think you’ve made a mistake I think it’s reasonable to point it out. Same goes for you pointing out my mistakes of course.

    > They did address this very point in the book.

    The way they address it is to establish a privileged reference frame. Your strategy of establishing causal relationships fails because there often are no causal relationships (even indirectly) between events.

    > I don’t recall anything like that in the book.

    Well there is (kinda), but not in much detail. They neglected to describe the privileged reference frame clearly, so I’m offering my best guess of what it might be.

    What Unger actually says (p233) is:

    “it allows for preferred observers. Their position, set by the mean distribution of matter in the universe [[which I take to mean average velocity]] must enable them to watch the clock without any distortion resulting from the anomoly of their position [[which I take to rule out gravitational time dilation]]”.

    > Except for the fact that [the singular universe] is the best interpretation of our empirical observations.

    That is a controversial statement, as you know.

    > Again, you (purposefully?) underestimate my intelligence, it seems.

    No. I know I gave a facile answer, but it’s a facile question. To ask where the Platonic realm is located is daft. I know you know that, so don’t ask that question.

    > I never claim that there is a place where mathematical structures reside

    You asked where is the realm. “Where” implies a place. If you don’t think there is a place (and I know you don’t) then you shouldn’t ask the question, or at least you should phrase it differently so I know what it is you’re asking.

    > As I said, when Tegmark was asked about it after his talk at the Graduate Center he stumbled badly, making no sense at all.

    I am no apostle of Tegmark’s. If Tegmark gets flustered by philosophers it has no bearing on mathematical Platonism, which I came to independently of Tegmark.

    > But that’s a constructivist, not Platonist, view of mathematics.

    Only if you think Platonists believe we perceive mathematical objects with a mystical sixth sense. I don’t think any modern Platonist believes that. If you must equate Platonism with mysticism, then I am not a Platonist in your terminology, but then not too many people are, I’ll warrant.

    > Their argument does not depending the least from assuming that GR is fundamental.

    Nor did I say it did. But they made too much of a big deal of attacking the singularity. It’s a strawman, because nobody is committed to believing in it.

    > Please, that is precisely the same hope that motivates string theory and talk about the multiverse.

    Nobody is claiming that string theory must be true. I may claim the multiverse must be true, but I do not claim that this will ever be scientifically or conclusively established.

    > I find nothing idiosyncratic about it, and it provides arguments, not just stipulations.

    It is idiosyncratic to claim that believing in the reality of time means believing that nothing can be timeless. I claim that I believe that time is real and yet I believe that there are things that are changeless and exist outside of time. To me, their stipulation is like claiming that believing in rap music means that all music is rap music.

    > Did you actually read it?

    Yes of course I did! Did you?

    > Which, of course, they address, repeatedly.

    Which they address unconvincingly, repeatedly (as I pointed out). Since you didn’t outline any of these arguments (the crux of the issue for me) I didn’t waste words on going into detail. I think you should focus on this a little more if you write on Smolin’s half of the book.

    > Me (Massimo) “They are right, you are not!” I doubt this sort of exercise will get us anywhere…

    I agree that your exclamation will not get us anywhere. It is not, by the way, even remotely analogous to my point, which is that certainty about the singular universe is as scientifically indefensible as certainty in the multiverse. Agnosticism is the only scientifically justified view. Philosophically, on the other hand, it’s debatable.

    I’m out of comments now anyway, so thanks for the discussion. If there’s anything more to be said it can wait until the article on Smolin.

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  43. Hi Massimo, nicely written review. I would actually be interested in “natural philosophy” making a comeback… or I guess coming out of the closet.

    I’m also in agreement with them (and you) on the mathematics issue, and don’t quite get how pete1187 or DM feel they are reaching a non-constructivist account.

    My only disagreement may be with your reply to Coel. Supporting what he stated in a recent reply, while you are right most scientists may not have heard of Quine, most I know (granted in this case neuroscientists, biologists, and chemists) seem to use a pretty tentative web-of-knowledge approach. In any case, I don’t see why a TOE is inconsistent with that, except if it were believed any “discovered” TOE would close the book on future evaluations of the TOE based on incoming evidence (and so treated as the real, undisputable TOE).

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  44. @Liam Ubert

    I’m completely on board with you up until this point:

    Having struggled with this little problem for a while, the best definition seems to be that any thing or any non-thing that persists independently of the mind is real. All other mental constructs are not real, even though they exist in our minds, and even though the thought process itself is real. Therefore, the thought of Santa is real, Santa not so much.

    The way I have connected the dots is that experiences of the mind are indeed real — after all, they affect how we think, how we behave, the choices we make, etc., and what can be more real than that? — but they are not actual, i.e. they are not objective. Because of this, we can’t expect them to be reasonably intersubjective unless we have learned to ‘see’ with that lens. So Santa is indeed real to the 3 year old, just as QM is real to the theoretical physicist (and just as classical physics were to Newton!), and God is real to the religionist.

    The only thing that is actual, though, is the physical sensory data; everything else (from how our brains categorize that data, how we interpret it, how we sift it, how we connect it or refuse to connect it with other data points, etc.) is particular to our brains and isn’t ‘out there’, so to speak; it’s a human interpretation of what is out there — no more, no less. And as so many have already pointed out in this thread, we have to be extremely careful to not confuse the map with the territory.

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  45. Einstein’s Error, The Multiverse

    In 1905, his so-called Wonder Year, Einstein presented a theory of the photoelectric effect. The new idea came in just two lines, and, although crucially correct, it was also crucially wrong.

    What Einstein ought to have said is that electromagnetic energy was absorbed by packets of energy hf (h was Planck’s Constant, f the frequency of the light). That explained immediately the photoelectric effect.

    An electron receiving energy, received a packet hf. If f was too small, the electron could not be emitted: the electron needed some energy, say A, to escape the material. One needed hf > A. Nor could an electron just pile up energy from light until the stored energy exceeded A. Why? Becaue energy was transferred by these packets, and only these packets. It was hf, or nothing.

    That explanation of the photoelectric effect was both necessary and SUFFICIENT. It was exactly the symmetric statement of the one made by Planck in 1900 (Planck did more than that, and it is astounding that he did not explain the photoelectric effect, as he had done 99% of the work).

    Should Einstein have said what I said, he would have explained the photoelectric effect, instead of putting all of physics on an erroneous path.

    However, Einstein instead said something prophetic he had no reason to proffer.

    Here is Einstein statement:

    “Energy, during the propagation of a ray of light, is not continuously distributed over steadily increasing spaces, but it consists of a finite number of energy quanta localized at points in space, moving without dividing and capable of being absorbed or generated only as entities.”

    With Planck’s E = hf, this is what gave Einstein the Nobel Prize in 1921.

    Einstein claimed that light is made of “quanta localized at points in space, moving without dividing”. Thus, Einstein invented elementary particles. Einstein had no reason for of this fabrication, whatsoever, and did not need it, as I said.

    Fast forward thirty years. By then thanks to the likes of Dirac (inventor of Quantum Electro Dynamics, who stumbled on Cartan’s Spinor Space and Antimatter) and Von Neumann (Functional Analysis maven), etc. the Quantum formalism had been sculpted like Mount Rushmore in the mountains of natural philosophy.

    The formalism consisted in claiming that the elementary particles invented by Albert were vectors in a (Hilbert) space whose basis was made of the possible results of the experiment E.

    The mathematics worked well.

    However, IF Einstein’s initial invention was false, so was the picture of reality it gave.

    Yet, as we saw, Einstein had no reason to claim what he did: he violated Newton’s “Hypotheses Non Fingo” (“I do not FABRICATE hypotheses”… my translation).

    Newton: …”I do not fabricate hypotheses. For whatever is not deduced from the phenomena must be called a hypothesis; and hypotheses, whether metaphysical or physical, or based on occult qualities, or mechanical, have no place in experimental philosophy. In this philosophy particular propositions are inferred from the phenomena, and afterwards rendered general by induction.”

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  46. Massimo,

    I thought you said you didn’t read the book… 😉

    Oops, now you got me! 🙂 I have actually read the quotes from your essay above, and (over-)extrapolated. Like every serious theoretical physicist. 😉

    Most importantly, they see the time-symmetry of mathematics as a fundamental mental block that has led a number of physicists to deny the reality of time.

    Oh, yes, right, I’m familiar with that argument. Time-independence of math itself suggests a perspective that laws of physics should also be time-independent. Ah, those pesky theoretical physicists, they always like to over-extrapolate… 😉

    So here we have a hammer, and it works well for nails (unreasonably effectively, some would say). And then we figure we need to cut some paper, so we decide to invent a new tool, call it “scissors”. But the hammer works so well for nails, surely scissors would work equally well for paper if we design them in a qualitatively similar way (a single handle-stick with something heavy at one end, which somehow cuts paper). And then it takes a touch of a genius to say “Guys, a hammer paradigm is all wrong for paper, we actually need a tool with two equal sharp movable parts”.

    I’m not being sarcastic here. Just, umm,… well-informed. 😉

    Which theory?
    […]
    That’s not the way U&S describes it, pretty explicitly. They reject any talk of meta-law.

    Now I’m confused. I (wrongly?) assumed that the book was about explaining the metaphysics background for the models of QG that Lee has been working on (“energetic causal sets” stuff, an illustrative example discussed in one of the previous threads being the 1307.6167 paper by Lee and Marina Cortes). Is the book about something else? Because that example paper certainly features the meta-law (equation (4)), irrespective of what U&S book may claim. Arguably, any concrete model of QG will feature such a thing, in one form or another. Its presence is what it means to “have a theory” to begin with. The semantics of that theory is a different matter.

    You seem to be thinking of physics primarily […] But think about, say, biology, or the social sciences.

    Oh but of course, I never meant to encompass anything outside of physics. Sorry, I wasn’t explicit — my criticism of Cartwright goes only as far as TOEsf in physics is concerned, not beyond. Within physics, however, a TOEsf should certainly be constructible, such that all known laws become reducible to it. I see no problem with the program of seeking such a TOEsf, despite the fact that those laws might turn out to be time-dependent.

    “This requirement, of sewing together the patches at their overlaps, implies that each patch is only a different rephrasing of the same underlying law, which “covers” both domains simultaneously.”

    I don’t see why that follows at all.

    It follows because there are no *sharp* boundaries for the domain of any patch-law.

    Namely, given two overlapping domains, and two patch-laws for them, I can push the domain of the first patch to overlap the second domain ever more and more, until it covers it completely. To do this, I modify the first patch-law more and more, adding successive corrections, until it completely encompasses both domains. Due to consistency, the second patch-law must then become reducible to the extended-first-patch law. And the extended-first-patch law thus becomes a unified description of both domains, which then overlap other domains, and can be pushed into their territory as well.

    It’s like describing an ellipse with epicycles — it may not be terribly efficient (for some shapes of the ellipse), but it is certainly possible.

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  47. Coel,

    Overall, I largely agree with most things you said so far in this thread, but this piece is slightly dangeorous:

    Inflation-based models have since done a very good job of *predicting* features of the cosmic microwave background that have since been *verified* by WMAP and Planck (e.g. see the second plot down here).

    That power spectrum is a prediction of Lambda-CDM, and the inflation phase present in there arguably has nothing whatsoever to do with eternal inflation (and stuff like multiverse, randomized fundamental constants, etc). Those are distinct models of inflation. Eternal inflation stuff is *not* verified (not even suggested) in the CMB power spectrum. Sean’s article that you linked to is all about explaining precisely that lack of result by BICEP2 (I can recommend that article to everyone, btw). Besides, Sean includes some words of warning even for the former, LCDM-used model of inflation:

    “But we don’t know whether inflation is correct! The strongest predictions of inflation — spatial flatness, scale-free primordial density perturbations — have an annoyingly generic quality. You might expect them to arise in some non-inflationary scenario for the very early universe […]”

    So I agree that inflation is an interesting toy-model, it may yet show up in future data, but let’s not oversell that power spectrum picture. 😉

    Robin,

    But if they sent us the first 50 prime numbers encoded in binary then we could understand them straight away.

    Moreover we would then have enough knowledge to send them a message specifying an advanced mathematical language which they could understand and use to communicate back to us, using nothing but high and low values.

    You assume here that the aliens have had a good reason to develop arithmetic in the same way we did — in the sense that they had motivation to introduce the notion of prime numbers to begin with, and moreover that they expect us to be aware of the properties of prime numbers. Why would any of that be true?

    They could have sent us any other sequence of natural numbers that they find interesting, a sequence we may have no idea about. Prime numbers are neither unique in this respect, nor a “natural” choice in any sense.

    Whenever the topic of math-as-a-universal-language-to-communicate-with-aliens comes up in a conversation, I try to remind everyone of Solaris, a masterpiece description of ignorance-from-anthropomorphism fallacy, by Stanislaw Lem. If someone hasn’t read it yet, better hurry! 🙂

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